Great Pyramid's Big Void is Finally Being Opened - Matt Beall

[Music] [Music] Heat. Heat. So, you've got a few things going on. I do. What I'd like to hear, you know, whatever whatever you're uh comfortable revealing. Yeah, for sure. It's probably an understatement I got a few things going on. Life is crazy. Life is crazy. But it certainly is. Yeah. Yeah. But it's good, man. I mean, the best thing I got going on is I'm talking to Randall Carlson right now. So, that's that's that's pretty freaking cool. Um, not that many people can say that, actually. Just me and Becket. So, it's pretty freaking cool. But um yeah, man, I released an episode with Zahi Hawas today. So that was pretty awesome on the Matt Bell Limitless channel. So um you know, it was um it it was it was his only other podcast that he's doing in the States while he's here. He's in North America, so the US and Canada for uh three months actually, and he's doing all these lectures and book signings and stuff. I think he's doing 30 of those. But um uh yeah, we were able to um meet and go to dinner and uh you know, he's an interesting character. He's about like you would, you know, like you would like you like you would think. But um but there was some there was some really there was some really good uh uh information to come out of the conversation and and some new stuff that just dropped. And so, you know, it's such a small channel. Um, I mean it's it's growing, you know, my channel, but but uh it's it's not gonna it's not going to be like, you know, international news, but I feel like it should be. So So being able to talk about it on your on your show today is is meaningful because it'll get out to more people. And um the the bits of information the I guess you know, one of the one of the big things is that we're going to be exploring the big void within the Great Pyramid. Uh and that's probably going to be happening in January, possibly February. Wow. Um it was as of a few months ago, it was supposed to be in November, but I guess it's gotten pushed back by a couple months, but um yeah, basically um I I had the opportunity and and have the great honor of being able to um be a part of the team. I'm I'm funding the robotics um component of the investment in order to um to explore the big void. So, um, I jumped all over that opportunity and and get to be, you know, a part of that team that goes and actually, uh, experiences it as the big void within the Great Pyramid is being explored by robotics next year. So, early next year. So, so, so you'll be taking I think this will be your first sojour in Egypt. You got it. Yeah. Yeah. It's pretty mind-blowing. Yeah. Yeah. No doubt. No doubt. Yeah. I've kind of held off on going because I knew that, you know, or planning a trip cuz I knew that this was going to be, you know, coming up. So, um, yeah, it's, uh, it's going to be freaking cool, man. I mean, like to to get in there. It's like one of the biggest chambers and one of the biggest places, I think, in the world that people want to know what is in there. You know what? So, tell tell me more about the big void. I mean, wow. The big void. Yeah. Yeah. So, the Big Void is the size of two semi-truckss and it exists within the Great Pyramid and it's above the uh the Grand Gallery. Above the Okay. Above the Grand. Yeah. Yeah. So, and it's there's some question about whether or not it's like um diagonal shaped or if it's flat like horizontal shaped. But um I think the the current best thinking as far as I know is that it's it's it's kind of like shaped like the Grand Gallery. So diagonal shaped above the Grand Gallery and um you know the question is like what what's what's in there and um you know it wasn't discovered until the um till the team of people got in and started to scan the place and to you know they they recognized they found this big void and gosh that was years ago man I mean um you'll be able to Was this the Italian team? No, no, this wasn't the this wasn't the Italian team. It was actually the scan pyramids team. Um Okay. I I remember that was Yeah. Okay. That we are going back a ways. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. And they explored the uh the the the shaft in the Queen's chamber and Genan bricks door and uh found that found that the two copper pins up there that that I still don't think have a very good explanation. But this is a team that kind of broke off from that team. There's they there's actually two separate teams now. And this is called the pyramids team. That's called the scan pyramids team. Um Sean Whitehead and Will Westway are I think Westway I think. Um I haven't met Will yet, but um uh they are kind of the you know two of the leaders of this team. And then Zahiwas himself is the director of the team. He's the kind of the senior leader of the team. So um you know I wanted to make sure I didn't screw up my relationship with this group of people by having them on my podcast. and you know throwing too much uh you know um uh you know too too many challenging questions out at him. But we had just a terrific discussion and again um it came out today and I think we we went over some great stuff. But um but yeah, go ahead questions. I'm glad to hear that. I mean, you know, it sounds to me like Zahi is more open than he used to be to I maybe I don't know. He would seem I I I don't know. I always respected him because I thought, okay, and and you know, look, you know what Carl Sean used to say, um, you know, the famous saying out not outrageous, but uh, extraordinary claims require extraordinary proofs. Yeah. And I figured there's a role for skeptics and and you know, as long as it's a fair-minded skepticism and you ask legitimate questions and don't necessarily start from the uh you know, the supposition that you're whoever you're challenging is is is wrong, has no basis of credibility or any of that. So, um because that's how you I mean that's how the scientific process works, right? Right. No doubt. Yeah. Yeah. In terms of open-mindedness, I mean, he'll he'll tell you that he's open-minded, but but if you ask him, you know, what like um he he's not open-minded to the possibility that some group of people other than the ancient Egyptians during the time of Kufu and Cafrey built the the Great Pyramid, the Middle Pyramid, the the Sphinx, you know, the all the great. He's not open to that. So, he he's 100% in his mind. He knows that that all of those structures were built by the Egyptians in the time that is um you know fed to us by academia that that and that's a fact and that there's no possibility that it's anything other than that. So there's not there's not any open-mindedness as it relates to that being anything other than an older civilization. Yeah. No no possible way. Yeah. Now I, you know, I've got enough geology background that and I've studied rock weathering and erosion, right? And everything that I've seen on the Sphinx, I've, you know, I visited there myself. I had a chance to firsthand study the the pattern of erosion. And, you know, I came away convinced that, yeah, we're looking at, you know, overland water flow, sheet flows that probably came from the from the west. Uh it could have also been a rising of the Nile because you raise a Nile 120 130 feet and it's going to submerge the the the snake. Uh that is not an outlandish claim, right? And there is evidence that yeah the Nile River has from time to time flooded it to an extraordinary depth above its modern flood plane. Right. So it seemed perfectly reasonable to me to accept the possibility or probability that that was water erosion. So when you're there, you know, you probably I'm sure you'll have a chance to look at it yourself firsthand. Yeah. Um and you before you go, I could uh provide you with some photos and some interesting studies uh that might enhance uh you know, your experience when you're there seeing some of this stuff firsthand. But cool. But yeah, I came away uh convinced, yeah, that's water erosion. So how it so then that raises the question when would that water have caused that erosion and there's two things two ways to look at it one water flow over a protracted period of time say millennia which of course then implies that the Sphinx is older because we know I mean there's there's robust evidence going back to the 1950s that that Egypt used to relatively lush. The Sahara, the area around Giza was was a relatively lush climate and there was uh tremendous amounts of of water flowing. There were huge lakes for example um you know the bedrock of the Giza plateau is mostly limestone. Limestone erodess under it dissolves basically under wa uh under a particularly acidic water. And this is why you have so many caves. For example, Tennessee and Kentucky. You're going to find Mammoth Cave. The f you've heard of that, of course. And Mammoth Cave is is, you know, primarily uh eroded in limestone. Um so when you start, let's say, with fractured bedrock, which could be primarily, I guess, tectonic, uh which causes fractures in bedrock, that allows water to percolate through and that water will erode and create caves. So, you know, you've got in Kentucky large regions of the bedrock are almost honeycombed with caves and that's because it's limestone. So, it's not out of the question that you would have major apertures or cavities within the limestone bedrock of Giza Plateau, right? Uh and that there has been water. So the question then becomes uh I don't think you can explain that erosion around the Sphinx by any other means than water. I mean I've seen many examples of wind erosion and water erosion and I'm definitely come down on the side of water erosion. So it raises the question when was that water there? Now Robert, you're familiar somewhat with Robert Shocks. Oh sure. Yeah. Yeah. Right. and uh you know he Anthony West before you kind of invited Shock out there. Yeah. Yeah. And I did have the privilege of meeting and getting to know uh John Anthony before he passed. Um which was great. We were in Egypt at the same time. Uh and we barely crossed paths at Carneack. Just enough to wave at each other. But uh but yeah, so it went from you know, Schwaller Dubich was the first one who proposed water erosion on the Sphinx and that and and John Anthony West got his cue from from Schwaller Dubich who wrote the famous two volume Temple and man actually which is right there. I've been looking at it recently. Um it's a deep dense work. Um, but anyway, so it went from Schwaller to Lubich to John Anthony West, then from John Anthony to Robert Shock, and then Robert took the uh took the ball and kind of ran with it. And uh, yeah, you know, I mean, I'm convinced that yes, it is water erosion. So then the next question is, when was the Well, it's the Sahara has been a desert for 5,000 years. So I don't think it was in the last 5,000 years. So was it was it a protracted period of time like several millennia or was it a singular event? Now that I don't have an answer to but it does look like there have been major flooding events in Egypt particularly back during that kind of that younger dus window evidence of extreme Nile floods and so on all over North Africa. I mean all over North Africa. Yes. evidence of flooding all over. And but but yeah, if you ask Zahee, there is zero chance that it's water erosion. Zero. What does he What does he think it was? He says it's wind. He says it's wind. I know. There's no way. There's no way. I'm sorry. Yeah. Like, I'm not I'm not, you know, I'm not going to be as close-minded and take that to zero. But man, if that's wind erosion, doesn't that have to be like a million years older? I mean, it's like it it's it's for for for for wind to do that to limestone within the on the on the Sphinx means that limestone all over Egypt would look like that. If that's really what wind does to limestone. I mean, there's there's trillions of tons of limestone blocks all over Egypt, and none of them none of them look like that. None of them look like that, right? So, it it just doesn't make any sense. The whole thing to me. No. uh uh but you know uh I think that we will find there are going to be other examples uh you know the Assyrian uh you know Robert makes the uh the argument that the Assyrian is is much older and if you if you bury it something or you take the limestone you sheath it in granite now granite is not going to erode like limestone in a in in water right um but you know we've We can look at I I almost am tempted to pull it up here. I've done some interesting research on uh the quarrying techniques. Now, when I was in Egypt, I didn't have time to visit quaries. I've been next time I get back that's going to be high on my list because when you look at the quaries in Egypt particularly the limestone quaries going back to the old kingdom the the erosion on some of the the walls are so many so slight that you can still discern whether they you know the pick marks and the chisel marks. Yet, if you look at the the the the surrounding enclosure of the Sphinx, in some places, one to two feet of limestone material has been removed. Mhm. Um I'm tempted to to pull something up here just to look. Do you have by any chance any share on your end? Uh yeah, we we we we do actually. So So that was one of the things you know that the that the big void is going to be explored. That was a big drop that we had. And then the second thing was that there is a a a a third chamber or a second unexplored chamber that's been located within the Great Pyramid. and uh that that um we don't have plans to explore that one yet, but that was something that he he dropped on our show that um I guess is he's also mentioned on his lecture tour that he's doing, but that there's another chamber that has yet to be explored. It's not as big as the big void, but that was something else. And then Ryan, um if you could pull up for us the the graffiti that that that he also talked about on the show. So there's there's apparently Randall bin graffiti that has been discovered by Zahi's team um up within the relieving chamber, so-called relieving chamber of the so-called above the king's chamber and and that there's more graffiti that says basically Kufu's gang was here. So yeah, this is what he found. And there were I think Ryan, correct me if I'm wrong, but I think there were like three different sets of graffiti. Is this this maybe is even all three of them. Um but he said that he found them in multiple rooms above the king's chamber. And by rooms, he just meant little compartments. But but yeah, apparently it says um that Kufu's people were here and it was like the the 13th year of his reign or something like that. But it still is not conclusive proof that Kufu was the one who created the pyramid. I mean, these could have been uh there was that that uh we also talked through that u that piece of papyrus that that uh talked about the um the the Torah limestone that was being brought over during Kufu's reign, but that certainly could have been just an exterior renovation. Um, and these people that were part of Kufu's team could have just been, you know, could have just been in the pyramid doing doing work or doing renovations or whatever. So, there's there's still like no there's still no conclusive proof in my mind even after talking to him for a couple hours. I mean, it's like you find all this evidence and like you want to fit it into your narrative, but it's it's just evidence. It's just a theory. I mean, it's a sure it's a good theory, but it's not necessarily the that that like we have all the answers just cuz we found some ripped up piece of paper that said that Kufu was cing and transporting uh Torah limestone, which is, you know, so um yeah, that that was that but I mean that was a pretty big deal. This this picture right there that he showed on the show was a pretty big um you know, another pretty big drop of information it felt like. So, Zahi's team discovered this this graffiti. Yeah. Okay. Yeah. Yeah. And he has no motive, you know. I mean, I wouldn't. Okay. But, uh, No, I'm sure he's I'm sure they really did. I'm sure it's brand new graffiti. I mean, I'm I mean, I'm sure it's like brand new discovered graffiti. I'm I'm I'm sure that he didn't like forge it, but but again, it I mean, it looks really old, but but like it could have come from Kufu and they could have just been doing renovation, you I mean, um, I I think that that there's I think that we just need to remain open to the possibility that it was created at a different time that that, you know, that that we don't necessarily know that for sure. And I it just feels like the Sphinx, I mean, that that it's it's just much more likely than not that the Sphinx is significantly older. So, why wouldn't the why wouldn't the pyramids be older? All right, aerial view of the Sphinx. And then we see the Sphinx ditch here. um you know on the west side you can see the the rounded forms of the uh of the limestone uh exposed here. Let's go to the next one here. um just with so yeah and here you can kind of see the uh in the background here and you know the sphinx temple and the valley temple in the in the front here with assuming that uh these blocks these these megalithic blocks here are were quarried uh because you know Matt that the original sphinx is mostly it's bedrock and a yardang is an outcrop this limestone art out outcrop. So there was this yard dang emerging from the sand at some point. This is the assumption and that makes sense to me. And that was what was carved into the head and then the blocks around the body were quarried away in order to expose, you know, from roughly the neck down of this of the Sphanx. Randall, pull that mic a little closer for me. Sure. Okay, you got it. Okay. So then I'm going to This is a an exhausted New Kingdom limestone quarry. And note the traces of the stepwise removed blocks. Uh I wish I had a person standing in here. You could see this is actually you see this doorway and you think, "Oh, this is six feet high." But this is really these these layers here are like three feet each of these. So a person standing here is going to be relatively small. But this is new kingdom and this is essentially the Egyptian method of stone quaring by means of separation trenches. Um the assumption is is that they're using chisels to remove the the the rock between uh each of the separate blocks. Uh and here would be a cross-section profile. Here you can see the stepped profile. This is your working trench here. And then this block is removed and then this is excavated. And generally what they'll do is they'll look first for natural bedding planes because that provides the the the easiest way for to separate the blocks, right? Um so here's a cross-section profile of what a prequarry excavation pre-exavation quarry would look like. Um, and they're just you remove the the overburden to get to the to the bedrock to the limestone and then each block is successively removed. And this is kind of what you're left with here is once those blocks have been removed, you've got this stepped profile. You'll still see stepped profiles in modern quaries, right? So here's uh this is stone pickmarks on a limestone quarry from a ramicide times roughly 1200 years BC. So you can see very prominent the the the the pick marks have not been eroded away. Here is stone pickmarks in a quarry from the early new kingdom. So this is roughly 3,500 years ago. And again they they haven't there hasn't been enough material removed to uh obscure the the pick marks. So for 3,500 years this has been a desert environment which is a very low uh erosional environment right because there's water is the primary agency of erosion here. And then this is uh old kingdom. So this is circuit 4,000 years ago. And again you see the pick marks that are left on the quarry walls. Right. So, very little erosion has occurred. Now, let's go back to the sphinx. And you can see they're they're riven with these solution cavities. And I mean, this this is textbook water erosion, particularly sheet floods flowing over uh the the walls of the ditch here. Um, so here is a cross-section through the west wall of the Sphinx enclosure showing the actual limestone layers. It's 22 ft in height and basically the recession of the original quarry wall is going to be a function of the inuration of the limestone, meaning how hard is the limestone. So, you know, this down here is going to be a harder limestone than than number 11 right here. Uh because this is softer limestone. It's it's it's eroded. It's recessed greater. Now, here is a profile of what an original quarry would have looked like. And you can see here, this lines up nicely with the natural bedding planes. This is I've just taken this to scale. This is the actual diagram we looked at in the previous slide. Juxtaposing it on the cross-section of the west wall of the sphinx enclosure. We can see that there's some nice lining up of the bedding planes, but it gives you an idea of what the original wall would have looked like the day after all the blocks were removed. M so the er the erosion and the recession of the quarry wall is not going to begin until again because until the the blocks have been removed and at that point now the weather can go to work and start eroding the the the profile and so you've got this original profile and then this would be the end result of the regime of erosion. So it gives you an idea of how much uh material has actually been removed from that wall because that wall was originally would have been and I don't think even Zahi would argue this is that you know the the the blocks that form the the the Sphinx temple were removed quarried and we can see the blocks they're big rectalinear blocks so there's no doubt that this would have been roughly the profile at the point the blocks were removed. D. And again, the an important point is that the erosion wouldn't commence until the blocks have been removed. But clearly there's erosion. You can argue it's wind or you can argue it's water, but there is erosion. I would say that it's clearly water. There's a difference between wind and water erosion because for one thing, wind what it does is it's going to pick up and entrain sand and it's going to be almost like a um you know, it's going to almost create a a sand blasting effect that creates a lot of pock marks and things. It's it's very distinctive from water. Water wants to smooth things off, round things off. wind erosion is like I said it's going to leave a very granulated surface with pock marks and so on. Um but I think this gives you an indication of how much material had to be removed in order to get the profile that's there now. What what what percent chance would you say that wind could be the culprit for the erosion that we see around the Sphinx? Is it zero or is it just I would say wind has contributed some amount to it clearly but again we know that for a lot of the history of the Sphinx at least since uh you know Katherine's times it's been buried under sand. So once it's buried it's wind isn't going to do much. Um I would say from my opinion that is wind erosion is a component but a very a minor one. compared to water. Right. Right. Um and I don't know if I have them in this particular presentation, but I have a lot of photographs of water erosion, particularly of limestone. And when you look at it, it it's very suggestive that highly suggestive that that this is water, not wind. Um like I say, this is just some stuff that I've collected in this study of limestone erosion. Limestones are highly soluble in acid waters. However, they do not dissolve equally over their surfaces and the action of diss dissolution is usually concentrated down joints and fissures. The concentration of dissolution processes down joints and fissures leads to the focusing of water into such joints and fissures. And if you go back and you look at this, I mean, that's exactly what he's describing right here. Yeah. Exactly. Right. Right. Right. So, um, so it's old. I think it's got to be old. But now the question is is again the the the the time frame um because if you've got highly acidic waters and they're loaded with let's say sand or other grit material that could accelerate the erosion, you could accomplish a lot of erosion in a matter of you know a few weeks or months easily. On the other hand, if it's a more that's where it's at in my mind right now. Are we looking at something that's extremely old where the the the flooding that produced this erosion was relatively um spread out? Or are we looking at a single event or several concentrated events? I don't know. I I honestly don't know. But you can get an idea. This is my uh approach to this was to um study limestone erosion. So here we got this is going back to 64. This is rate of erosion of intertidal limestone. Let me just real quick ask you a question before you get absolutely rand. It's But doesn't it feel like if I if if this erosion was taking place and it was destroying the monument, the beautiful pristine stone monument that whatever culture of people had built, wouldn't they be repairing it and like flattening the walls out so that you didn't see all this all these rocks on the on the the uh the the the the the the casing wall around the Sphinx. Like so I mean it almost it I mean just logically it just seems like it all that damage all that erosional damage would have to be done after whatever that civilization was that built the Sphinx was no longer there whether they were wiped out or or just you know correct. Yeah. Yeah. Yes. Precisely. That's exactly what I how I would interpret it. Then another culture later on comes along and maybe excavates removes the sand and right you know if you and you know it's interesting you of course this is totally dismissed by mainstream archaeology but you know if you read Plato and his uh in his two dialogues where he he he addresses the story of Atlantis we we the report that comes from the the elderly Egyptian priesthood is that they have, you know, they they inform Solon that they have their sacred registers go back 9,000 years. Now, is that conceivable? Well, I mean, mainstream archaeology just just dismisses it. It's not conceivable. We don't even need to consider that that it's a possibility. M um but again in in the in the uh spirit of the outrageous hypothesis I think we could go well let's consider is it possible that a tradition could have been handed down for 9,000 years. I don't know how Native Americans are able to have myths and stories about great floods in in North America but they dozens and dozens of them. And we know there have been tremendously great floods in North America at the end of the last ice age, right? Um it's certainly doable. I mean, we've handed down Christianity for 2,000 years, you know, Judaism for for 2,000 years. Um you know, Buddhism for 4600 years. I mean, it's like we're we can humans can pass stuff down for a really long time. For a really long time. Yeah. So I don't ne I don't reject that out of hand that they could have had traditions passed down for 9,000 years. So if we go back to this let's say the old kingdom, we're almost halfway back essentially we are halfway back to that 9,000 years, right? Yeah. So is it so out of the question that they had traditions about a former civilization that could have occupied that region? Not at all. and that there would just just like now we're looking at monuments in Egypt that are 4,000 years old. Well, perhaps there were monuments that have been lost since then that were thousands of years earlier than Old Kingdom times, right? and and and when we when we factor in the extent to which we know the climate and environment of North Africa and around Egypt, how drastically it's changed. Um, you know, it's likely that there were catastrophes that could have interrupted the the continuum of civilization. In fact, I think that's a that's at this point an established reality in my mind. I mean, even just a couple of degrees of temperature change to mess with the crops for a couple years and you've got, you know, you've completely lost a civilization. So, yeah, I think we did talk about that. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. So, this this is we don't need to get into this in in great detail, but this is the kind of research I did to try to get my head wrapped around uh what this Sphinx erosion meant. And so this is this is you know you have limestone shores throughout the world which show characteristic erosional features. In quturnary limestones quaterturnary would be the last 2 and a half million years of the tropics and subtropics. There is commonly a wide flat intertidal platform which bounded at its landward side by an undercut cliff. The notch or intertidal nip it's called. This type of chore profile is welldeveloped in Western Australia. While there has been much discussion about the nature of the erosive process, surprisingly little attention has been paid to the rate at which it proceeds. So let me see. I think here. Yeah. So all direct estimates of the rate of erosion of intertidal rock surfaces give figures of quite a different order. Emory in 1941 on the basis of dated inscriptions estimates the rate of retreat of sea cliffs at la lyola laala California at 1 ft and 600 years at a mean rate of half a millimeter a year. So now you're talking intertidal. That means it's a high energy erosional environment, right? Because that's high tide, low tide. The sea is encroaching. The surf is pounding and washing against this exposed limestone cliff. So what they were able to do was determine that it took uh 1 foot in 600 years. Now this is a highly energetic erosional environment. Now, going back to the Sphinx wall, if we have a foot of material removed, does that mean it was subjected to 600 years of highly erosive activity? I don't know. But we can go on here. The shore rocks at Point Peron near Perth are mainly hard, secondarily cemented eolonite, which is wind blown with a high calcium carbonate content, which would be what you would find typically in limestone. Here there is a platform some 20 meters wide. Behind this there is a typical notch. The notch here faces inshore and is thus sheltered from the full impact of the waves. To obtain a direct measurement of the rate of erosion, stainless steel rods were driven firmly into the hard rock of the notch in pairs at three levels above the platform. There's been no movement of the rods since they were placed. So here's a a profile of it. It shows the three rods driven into the rock. So now what they were able to do was to measure over a period of years how much the limestone recessed because the the rod is not eroding. So it's going to recess and then you're going to have more of the metal rod exposed. Right. That makes sense, right? Sure. Yeah. Absolutely. Not note positions of steel pegs and amount of rock eroded from 1953 to 1962. And uh here was 2 mm, 4 mm, and 9 mm. And that makes sense because the lower is going to be subject to more erosion than the higher ones cuz the you know at high sea level yeah it's going to be eroding up at that higher level which is um here is uh heights above the data. Uh so this is mean sea level right here. This is mean sea level. So just a little bit above mean sea sea level. The rate of erosion was 9 mm. Um but as you get higher it's less erosion. That makes sense, right? Because down here the waves are washing up against this more consistently. Yeah. So then uh we'll skip all this but so at this level the mean rate of erosion was 1 millimeter per year. A figure that is again very close to estimates from limestone shores elsewhere. And uh so 1 millimeter per year. So, you know, a thousand years is going to be 1,000 millimeters or a meter, right? Right. So, that's 1,000 years of erosion would remove three a little over 3 ft of limestone, right? Cut that in half, you know, you're looking at about a foot and a half. So, that's 500 years. And that's sort of consistent with the other study we just looked at. So here um we can get an idea of okay how much does limestone erode under what particular regime of of climate and so forth and energy. Um we can look at uh others like this is an interesting way to to determine erosion rates. You look at inscription legibility method for estimating rock weathering rates. Well, if you have a gravestone, it's going to have a date inscribed into it, isn't it? Right. It's going to have a a gra So, the death of that individual and when they were buried there, they've got a grave marker. It's got the date of the death. So, that's the date that that stone was put out into the weather. So, there's been those kinds of studies. Um then uh so this Emory was the first to quantify rock surface recession rates from inscription legibility by noting that 3.2 mm deep carvings in the wavewashed calccarious sandstones, this is the one we just looked at, were obliterated in six years. So cliff retreat to 50 mm per century. Um uh yeah. So then on these on this study here's the this the summary of it. The mean of several observations gave us the rate of solution about 1 in in 500 years. So now let's let's just take that. Now this is here's here we're looking at an environment where it's going to be maybe 40 to 50 inches of rainfall per year but much lower erosional energy available obviously than a clip cliff that's faced right into the pounding surf. Right. So this represents a low energy erosional environment. The cliff face represents a high energy erosional environment. And here it says the mean of several observations gave uh 1 in in 500 years. Now let's go back to the Spanx. If it was just under a normal erosional environment where you might get 40 in of rainfall per year, which is kind of what we get here in the southeastern United States, 40 to 50, one inch in 500 years. Well, we can see that conservatively in some places 12 or 16 in or more of rock face have been removed. So, let's use 12 * 500 and now we're looking at 6,000 years of erosion. So, you can begin to see here we're establishing some parameters, but whether it's a fast erosional environment or a slow erosional environment, we're faced with some conundrums. We're we're faced with some questions here like okay if it was quarried say 10,000 years ago when there was fairly significant rainfall for four or 5,000 years well maybe it could do that over like we just said here f six this came up to 6,000 years. Okay that's one scenario. The other scenario is you've got a high energy erosional environment and it happened much quicker. Right? So what I've tried to do in this study is establish the parameters here within which this erosional phenomena could take place and they're very consistent. you know, limestones, their origins, distribution, and uses. The United States Bureau of Standards, they conducted an experiment because what they did here, they took 2-in cubes of rock and exposed on the roof of the bureau's building in Washington, and after careful weighing spread over a period of about 7 years, it was found that from exposure to the weather, an oolytic limestone would lose a layer about 1 millm in thickness in a 100 years. The loss from a compact crystal limestone was about 1/3 less. And so 1 millimeter per 100 years equals 38 of an inch in a thousand years. Now that's in the environment of Washington DC. You see it's sitting on the roof. Mhm. Uh this will be the last one we'll look at. I've got more. But this kind of this one was a um uh in the Tennessee River. Uh what they were doing was they were uh yeah the purpose of this paper is to present a few figures on the rate of solution of some limestone boulders in the Tennessee River at Watts Bar Dam. Since the limestone dissolved very slowly and almost unnoticeably to man there is very little exact information on this subject. So in 1912 to 1913 the core of engineers United States Army constructed a navigation dyke of large limestone boulders almost in midstream of the Tennessee River at Wattsbar. The second stage coffer dam at Wattsbar. You know coffer dam is when they isolate a part of the river to divert the flow. Right? So that's what they did. They created this coffer dam and it exposed this navigation dyke of limestone boulders that had been below the river. So the river has been washing over it for for decades, right? Uh let's see. Okay, it had been in the river for 27 years. So now they build a coffer dam. They now expose these limestone boulders to to the atmosphere and they're able to study how much erosion occurred. Uh the boulders are required from a nearby source. We don't need to get into all that. Um it was found that pure limestone had dissolved from one quarter to 3/4 inch more than the impure lamini only because the impure lamini had had harder stuff in it. But anyways, it is by this means that the rate of solution of limestone is established. The rate of solution of these limestone boulders is not comparable to the rate of solution of a limestone under normal groundwater conditions. But in case of free movement of the river water as under a limestone bluff over the limestone on the bed of the river through open joints or seams, the rate is comparable. And so here was the rate 1/2 inch in 25 years. Okay, so let's think about that. You've got limestone boulder. It's submerged under a freshwater river. That fresh water flowing over that is going to erode it at a rate of a/ inch in 25 years. Let's go back to 16 in* 25 * 2. So at that rate, water washing over the limestone would have removed. It would have taken 800 years to remove 16 in. And we're see 16 inches of material removed from the sphinx wall. So now you can I think begin to see sort of the complexity of this and the some of the problems confronted. What was the first of all you have to go to what was the water flow? How what was the volume of water flow for how long? Was it a single episode? Was it multiple episodes? Was it more normal erosion? But that in itself would imply many millennia of erosion. So you this is kind of where um the you can you can kind of brings the problem into into bold relief. Now what I would like to do see is some optically stimulated luminescence type dating on the exposed walls of the sphinx ditch. Nobody's ever done that to my knowledge. Which would show the problem there might be is because the the exposure to galactic cosmic rays which create the the the the imprint um have been interrupted from time to time when the when the ditch became filled with sand. But I would still think you could get some kind of an idea. But going back to the question of water flow in Egypt, well, isn't it also an issue that it's been kind of probably slowly continuously eroding over, you know, at least the last 40 46 years, but probably 10,000. I mean, a problem as it relates to the OSL, right? Yes. This is Yes. But yeah, right. And I'm not an expert in OSL. So, but I think that give me a couple more days. Okay. Um and uh but it seems like that could be a a viable way of of getting at least some estimate of how long that ditch has been exposed to the air. Okay. uh because that's you know it's being used in in glacial studies because you know if you have a rock that's under the glacier that's been worried and then the glacier recedes exposes the rock to the atmosphere now the the whole process uh uh begins at that point. Mhm. Uh so exposure to the atmosphere resets the the the uh atomic clock in in the rocks and then it starts creating uh you know isotopic byproducts and then you can measure that and get some estimate. Um yeah. So but it's not wind. I don't think it's wind. I don't think it's wind, man. No, I I don't because you know, Robert shown pictures of of wind erosion and it's very distinct. You don't have to be a geologist if you look at a few of them and then I can show you pictures. Okay, here's wind erosion. Here's water erosion. Right. And and you'd see it all over all the other limestone in Egypt and this place was covered with sand for thousands of years. So it's like Exactly. Yeah. It doesn't make any sense. So this is going and this is way back from 1960. Uh so what is that 40 50 65 years ago but this was an early textbook on geomorphology. Mhm. uh BW Sparks he was one of the early uh highly esteemed geologist wrote geomorphologists wrote wrote a textbook and he's talking about uh in Egypt all right he says um stream floods although stream floods and sheet floods may be effective agents in the formation of semierid landforms many deserts bear the imprint of even more significant ificant water action. It seems very doubtful whether the required amount of water ever falls in present conditions and many authorities have attributed such erosion to a wetter period during the pleasy. For example, the valley on the west side of the Nile at Luxor containing the tombs of king of the kings appears to be a water eroded valley, but the tombs themselves show no signs of destructive water action. This means that water action of any significance probably ceased at least 4,000 years ago. M um so he goes on but yeah I mean there is evidence and it's continued to accumulate in the last 65 years since this was written that there have been extreme per periods of extreme rainfall and flooding throughout Egypt. Mhm. So why is it such a huge leap to think that you know the Giza plateau could have been uh subject to some of these water flows? Yeah. Um, I feel like I should show you some pictures here. Let's see. because to just to give you an idea how how impressive uh some of these water flows might have been. Let me go to miss. Okay. So a wadi is a a water eroded channel in the desert floor that has very little water in it now if any except during flash floods when you might have you know every few years every decade or so you might get uh rainfall and then you the wadi will become active for a short period of time and then it goes back into being uh being dry not necessarily really know how to pronounce all these words, but Wadi Firan. It's the largest oasis in the Sinai Desert. And what it is is this, it's a watercarved valley. Uh, and one of the uh questions would be again uh how long was this did it take to cut this valley? I'll go through and show you a couple of more here. So, here's a photograph and this is the Wii here. It's a valley. It's been carved by water. Um, and here you can see the floor of the Wadi Fen, the largest oasis in the cyanade. You'll notice that it's a lot of boulders. Right. Right. This this is this is all water deposit. That's a camel down there. Uh, well, that's a just a little uh what does it say here? That's not a real camel. Okay. That's just a little little little icon. Um Oh, okay. So, here I thought he was literally standing on that rock. That's funny. So, here's uh Aadi in the Sahara Suda or Black Desert. And this is very typog. You'll see very similar formations in the deserts of southwestern US, right? Um, you notice the cliff face here, the material that's uh spled up against the the cliff face. Uh, and then the flat valley floor. You'll notice there's a whole bedrock uh floor. You see some of it prominent here, but uh it's buried out here. Um, and Randall, that that material that's that's pushed up against the cliff face there, would that have been deposited there during the actual flood fl from the floodwaters themselves? Okay. So, when you see this kind of a formation typically in the in the term that's usually uh used to uh describe it as talis. So, there's two ways of imp placing it. Uh, gravity or water. Now, gravity when that means that the rocks are falling off the cliff face and piling up, right? Well, the larger the uh material banked up against the the cliff, the more the cliff is going to have receded. And what you see in many cases is that a lot of the material particularly well I can even show you photographs of some of the stuff that we see uh out in the western US is definitely water impaced. I don't know about this but I would guess if if I had to guess I would say it's most likely water in place. I'll show you like look at this right over here. You're going to see something in just a minute I'll show you which we know was water in placed. Um, and you'll notice that the cliffs are pretty pretty vertical here. They're pretty sheer, right? So, did all of this material come off the cliff? Probably not. And this this uh this mineral that you see, the mineral uh concentrations you see on the surface would have indicated at one time there was a lot of water in here. It was probably sluggish and then it evaporated and it like if you dug down you might have 50 or 100 feet of sediment here and then at the bottom of that you're going to have bedrock. Wow. Now let's see. So here's another example of a watt. Now this has very sheer walls, right? You're going to see bigger rocks and more rubble if it's gravity and more like kind of sand and dirt. What you're going to see like look at this rock right here. If it's if it's fallen off a cliff, it's going to have sharp edges, angular edges, right? Uh and it has if you see this rounding, that indicates it's been moved by water, right? Water will will roll and tumble a rock. It'll start by breaking off the edges and the corners. Just like imagine your your you know your little lapidary unit. You throw your pebbles in there and what comes out is smooth rounded rocks, right? Yep. So, here's another one. You can see some of the rocks in the foreground. So, these have been transported. Um, this would you would call this sub angular because it's somewhat angular, but the corners have been have been eroded off right here. They're rounded. They're not sharp. And let's see. Again, you'll see massive piles of boulders. Some of them have sharp edges, so they probably were stripped off the canyon walls and not transported very far. The amount of rounding is an indication of the uh the distance of transport. The more they're transported, the more rounder they get. Makes sense. Yep. And here you've got this large flat floor. Um, we can see exactly the same kind of thing throughout the evidence of the Pacific Northwest where you had these gigantic uh flows, discharges of 50 to 100 million cubic feet per second. And when the water drains away, it'll often times create a flat floor. Uh, also the natural arched bridges which they're they're all over the world now, but none of them to my knowledge are actually in the process of being created. They're in the process of being destroyed by the modern erosional uh uh environment. In fact, there was one that I visited maybe a decade ago that recently collapsed out in uh where was it? Which one was that again? I think that one was in Arizona. Uh, but it's very difficult. Ask a gradualist-minded geologist to explain the the genesis of rock arches and natural bridges. Here's another one. Look at this. See, see these features here? Yeah, it's cool. Yeah. Ain't that cool? Yep. Okay. Uh, let's just jump on. Uh, yeah. So, here we have This is a very interesting I can I'll provide this if you'd like to read this. This is a very interesting study uh in the journal global and planetary change reconstructing an extreme flood from boulder transport and rainfall runoff modeling wadi Isa is Isla South Cyani Egypt and this is where it is there's many dozens and dozens of these wadis um and this one here is draining the uplands here out onto the what would have been the coastal plane at one time and so So here you can kind of get to see when this wadi was created. This is some of the sediment that's being transported within that wadi. So this is this I mean like you look at this. This is a rock that was plucked from the canyon walls, transported and dumped here once the now picture this clearly by wind Randall. Clearly this was wind erosion here. Well, uh, that would have been quite a wind. At least 20 or 30 miles an hour yesterday. At least. At least. So, picture this, a channel, a narrow channel, and the water you in water flow. In hydraology, you've got a a conservation of mass pro uh uh circumstance. So, that you have a narrow channel like this. The water's rushing through it. Right now, let's say that that narrow channel opens out into an a basin. Well, that water that's rushing through that channel at one velocity, um let's say it's moving at 20 to 25 miles an hour or more even. Once it breaks through of the confining channel, it spreads out and then it slows down. The competency of flowing water to transport sediment is based upon primarily the velocity of the water. Secondarily the depth of the water but primarily its velocity. Now when it breaks free of the confining channel it both spreads out and it slows down. So at the mouth of many uh mountain uh river creek channels and valleys so on you will see a a fan delta. It's called spled out from the mouth of the of the channel, right? And and you will see that at the as you go up towards the mouth of the channel, the sediment will be larger. It can be boulders, but at the distal end of it, it could be finer pebbles, even sand or even silt. Right? So, what's happening is we're this guy is standing right at the mouth of a wadi. So, as this water is breaking loose from the confinement of the channel, it's dumping its cargo of sediment. Now, let's go to the next one. Look at this boulder. So, this is a boulder that has now been transported in the water flow. So, that is a pretty substantial flow of water. So, how do you get that? Well, it had to have been rainfall, extreme rainfall. Somewhere, you know, up valley there was a rainfall. Now, this is probably over the the highlands there. We saw the you go back to the map here uh right here. So, you have rainfall over the Sinai massive and then that runs off. It collects in these channels. It runs off but there's enough rainfall that the flows in these channels are enormous enormous flows very destructive highly catastrophic. And then when it when it the French term is douche. When that water debouches out onto the plane, it dumps its its cargo of of boulders. So you can see this here. Um here's where you can see it's it's it's emerged from the confinement of the uh channel where it would have been very much deeper. But once it comes out onto the plane, it shallows. And this dash line shows the water level. And that's probably 50 feet above the valley floor. And then it begins to dump its cargo. Um, now notice this giant flood rolled boulders. So this guy, so looking at this picture, you see the boulders. Those boulders were stripped from the quarrying or the the excavation of the channel the wadi. So behind him you see a cliff in front of him over on the other side there'll be another cliff. So the water flow excavates the cliff, entrains the the the quarried boulders, sweeps them down current and then once the channel begins to open up, it dumps that cargo of boulders. Okay. Now compare that to the next picture, which is a picture of me taken in southern Idaho. How fast is the water traveling to move those boulders? Oh, probably 40 to 50 m an hour. Yeah. So it's moving fast. Yeah. But but take just for comparison. Look, it's the same phenomena. This is Idaho. This is the Sinai. Yep. And like across from me is another cliff like this one. The the counterpart before this this water flow happened here. There was not this cliff didn't exist. Right. Right. This is I'm on a boulder bar here that's three miles long and hundreds of feet thick. In fact, I just took a tour group out and we visited this boulder bar a few weeks ago. Uh this picture was taken I think in 2000 I'm younger there. Um early 2000s. When was I there? It was 2002 2003 something like that. So I took a group of 38 people back. This is one of the sites we visited. And uh I wanted them and and again look at the this is interesting like look at this boulder. You see there's a sharp edge right here. So this boulder was quarried. It was rolled and somewhere before it was dumped it it was it had enough of a of a of a a an impact against it that part of the rock broke off. Okay. Right. So you can see that right here. Y um and as you go you'll see that most of these rocks are rounded but a lot of them you know because again this is a very violent uh thing that's happening here and these rocks are rolling and tumbling so they're not only getting round rounded off but at some points many of them will break and fracture and uh what type of rock was that Randall was that that one basalt was it? This is basalt. Yes. Okay. So here we have what are called imbrecated boulders and cobbles and water will do this very distinctive type of stacking. The uh the analogy I use is imagine you've got a bookshelf with books on it, right? I can almost turn my camera here and we could look at my bookshelf, but you'll get the idea. If I push it this way, it'll tilt. You see? Yeah. If I push it this way, the books will tilt this way. Well, the water will do the same thing. It'll take these rocks and it'll stack them like that. And that's what you see here, right? So, you can look at this and you can look you can see the direction of water flow is indicated by the black arrow. See, just imagine that you're the that the that the force that the pressure of the flow is coming from the left towards the right. And this is in Wadi. Isla, if that's how you say it. This is in uh Montana. And you're seeing if as you look at this, you can see the same type of imicate structure. Uh and the water flow is from right to left. Here you can see imitate boulders in the southern Appalachians. And once you've once you've recognized this, you can you know you you understand the process. So looking at this, you don't even need the arrow, do you? You can, you would know that the water flow is from left to right, right? See that? Yep. And then you have masses of alovvium, which is where the finer grain stuff is dumped in thick layers. And again, look up here at the top, Matt. You'll see this big old boulder up here. The way to understand what you're looking at here is this is a dried out gigantic mud flow. a mud flow. And this is in Wadi Isla, Egypt. And then this one is in the Mojave Desert of California. I think it's I think it's Isla. Thank you. Easy. Okay. From now on, for the rest of my life, I'm going to know how to pronounce that word. Isla. Isla. That makes sense. Isla. Isla. Uh so yeah, you notice the what are called the hoodoo here. And you'll see the same thing right over here. Right. So after after the imp placement of this mud flow, it dries out and then overwash will carve these hoodoo like features here. So uh that's cool. Yeah, it's cool. And and and it's literally like a language that you can learn. And I'm trying to teach people how to to read this language because there's an epic story written large into the surface of the entire planet that we live on, right? And now, you know, we've got things like this. We can look at, you know, we've got photographs. And when I took this, this was um God, this had to have been more than 20 years ago when I was exploring this this channel here. And interestingly, this this this led from the um this led from the uh the Mojave Desert. And I was able to trace the water flu through us through a succession of canyons and basins that held former lakes. All of this water ended up in Death Valley and it literally filled Death Valley a thousand feet deep. It's called Lake Manley. And you know once you once you begin to realize that the world we inhabit is the whole the whole planetary surface has been sculpted by these tremendous events um gigantic floods, ice ages, impacts, huge volcanic eruptions, tsunamis, the list goes on and on and we realize my god this is this the the model of earth change now is way beyond the gradualist models of a half century ago. Right. Right. Yeah. No doubt about it. Yeah. It's fascinating stuff, man. And I guess, you know, it just seems like we we ought to be able to very soon, probably a lot sooner than we think, plug in videos and images and just overview of the terrain of wherever we want to, all over the globe, North America into AI and say, "What happened here?" Yeah. you know, and and just be and and just have it spit out like, okay, there's a 98% possibility that the uh you know, this is from from the the glaciers rapidly melting or what, you know, whatever the hell, right? Yeah. It it shouldn't shouldn't being long I think that there's global agreement upon our human history and and what these like it's you know it's it's one it's there's very few people that can actually read the earth and the images of the earth and and look at rock formations like you can and it feels like AI should be able to help us be able to actually spread some intelligence amongst humanity that you already have that you that you've had for you know decades now and be able to to really come to some conclusive agreement upon what happened and where, you know, well, working with Becket, Beckett has already opened my eyes to the possibility of AI. We've we've done some very preliminary reconstructions of like glaciated landscapes, uh, meltwater discharge coming off the the glacial front, uh, creating landscapes. So, this was just, you know, a few weeks or a month ago we did this. And I mean, I knew the potential was there, but working with Beckett, I was like, boom. Oh, wow. Right. Right. It's going to change everything in just a couple of years. I mean, when when when you show the images of the Sphinx to AI, and I told Zahi this, it it spits out and you take out archaeological bias, it spits out 9 to 12,000 years old as the age of the Sphinx. Really? Yeah. Yeah. Like every time. I mean, Wow. Yeah. Yeah, I mean that's what that's what I that's every time I do it and every every time I ask AI like if you take out archaeological I mean just try it you know after the after the show see what it says to you and it's like yeah that thing's it's 9 to 12,000 years old and uh so he's like I don't believe in AI. It's like okay well that's a convenient way to Yeah. Yeah. I don't believe in AI. Okay. Right. I don't believe in intelligence. So, so yeah, I mean it's um it it it it's pretty fasc and I think like that's just the beginning though, you know, when you start that's those are images. Like I feel like when you start to like you you survey the entire surface of the planet of the earth with you know with LAR and with um you know ground penetrating radar and you know you start to like get sonar on the coast and you start to just feed all the satellite imagery that we have of the earth into into AI and you say look tell me about the history of the earth from a geological standpoint like what happened. I feel like it it it ought to be able to paint a fairly accurate picture within the next couple of years. And so I feel like that's I hadn't heard anybody talk about this, but I feel like that that's coming and that that like we're we're on the brink of really understanding a lot. I absolutely think you you have to be right. Um and I think we are just on the threshold of developing entirely new models of of the earth, global change, the history of the planet. And where it to me is so fascinating and relevant is when we start understanding the nature the extent of global change during the period of time that we humans modern humans have inhabited this planet and it's been extraordinary. Yeah. Um just extraordinary. And there's so many things that I'd love to talk to you about in further depth. I'm sure we'll get a opportunity coming up in a few weeks at the at the cosmic summit. Uh, one of the people there that would be worth checking out is is Dallas Abbott, who's been uh in the forefront of doing uh research into mega tsunamis around the world and the evidence for gigantic tsunamis um in some cases uh you know with runup heights of over 600 ft. Mhm. Um, which means, you know, that that that's essentially a measure of how high the the wave was when it made landfall. And that's beyond the capacity of a volcanic eruption or even a large earthquake. You're probably getting into it's extraterrestrial, right? I mean, yeah, it sure certainly does seem like that. Yeah. And uh yes, I like an impact. I mean, like a comet, like a correct. Yeah. or an asteroid, you know, you got something like you got a half a kilometer object moving at, you know, 20 miles per second, which is realistic. Yeah. Yeah. That slams into the ocean. Yeah. You you're going to get and here's the thing. When you look at like if it happens during the ice age, you know, you had a much greater exposure of the lowlying coastal plains around all the continents, right? So your your run up you with a tsunami, you've got two things to consider. the runup height and the runin distance. Now, obviously, if you've got a steep terrain, and you can still have a 100 foot wave that comes in, but it's not going to go far inland. But if you've got a very shallow plane that can wash inland many, many miles. So, you've got the runup height and the runin height. During the ice age, a tsunami could have a much greater runin distance uh because of the the exposed shallow coastal plains like right here in in if we and I'm sure it would have been roughly the same in in in Florida. If I go here over to like Savannah uh on the on the uh east coast of Georgia, you know, I'm right there standing at the beach. And if I'm suddenly transported back to the late glacial maximum 15 to 20,000 years ago, sea levels are 400 ft lower and the and the coastline, the beach is going to be 50 miles further east and I'm going to be standing in the middle of the forest. Right. Right. Right. Mhm. However, again, that coastal plane is is low gradient. So, any tsunami making landfall has the potential to wash in um a lot farther um because of that, right? But but then of course what happens is is with sea level having risen 400 feet and that rise in sea level we were just talking earlier about the energy expended at a at a uh intertidal zone you know and in its work its erosive work on limestone. Well during a 400t sea level rise we now know that that that sea level rise was not a continuum a smooth rise. it was um pulsed. You know, there were meltwater pulse 1A, meltwater pulse 1B. I think there's a third meltwater pulse that we're going to soon be able to identify that's coincides almost exactly with the lower younger driest boundary because the work of um uh not Roy Breenidge um oh work on the McKenzie River in the meltwater floods into the Arctic Ocean seem to be dating right at the younger lower younger dest boundary. Okay. Um, so yeah, we're we're kind of on the threshold, I think, of unraveling a whole and creating a whole new model of Earth history. Yeah. And once we have that as the context, we should then can take a a fresh look at the human story within that framework, right? Yeah. I was just thinking how incredible it was that humans could be hunting that much during this time period. Yeah. Yeah. Well, and then that brings us, of course, to the question of the mass extinction of the great megapana. Yeah, that's what I'm saying. That they that they over hunted them all while all this incredible climate changes and and sea level changes and meltwater pulses were all happening. Yeah. So, yeah, it's uh I'm going to show you a quick graph here. Do you find that academia now is kind of just ignoring this this period as as Oh, yeah. as opposed to like like they used to strongly say, you know, over hunting is the story and you know, like we we we know what happened and it's just gradualism and there's no catastrophe. Now, it seems like they're all like, ah, I don't I don't it's not really my area. I don't really want to talk about it. Like, it feels like they recognize that there was some that they're going to have to change the story here and that that it's probably best just to distance themselves. that that's that's kind of what I gather from just listening to various, you know, people on the I I think your impression is is accurate. Uh yeah, although I've gotten a lot of uh communications over the last few years from geologists, some of them saying that they think I'm right on some of my stuff. I've gotten uh emails and and comments and things from younger geologists or or or or college age, you know, in their 20s that are going into geology. And like I got one not too long ago. He was saying, you know, I used to think geology was so boring, but I started listening to some of your podcasts and seeing some of the evidence you presented about great catastrophes and I saw found it so interesting I've decided to go and get my degree in geology. Yep. So, I'm kind I think that it'll take another 5 to 10 years, but I think we're going to have a whole new crop of of young scientists who are much more willing and not so invested in the gradualist model, right? And there's many reasons and and a lot of them get into politics and we won't need to discuss that today, but at some point it's a discussion we need to have. Now, this have you ever seen this graph? The oxygen is did I show this to you? Yes. I believe you mentioned this when you were on my show. Yeah, I mentioned it, but I might have not shown it to you. Okay. I don't Yeah. Okay. So, and if you don't really remember, then it's good to uh to revisit it. So, oxygen isotopes in Greenland. We don't need to get into the the technology, but basically um the the heavier, you know, you've got oxygen 16, oxygen 18. in an energetic uh uh environment in in warmer weather, there's more energy to evaporate ocean water. That more energy means that more of the heavy oxygen can get evaporated uh and then precipitated out as rain or snowfall. Uh in colder times, you don't have the available energy. And so what happens is the ratio of oxygen 16 to oxygen 18 in rainfall and snowfall changes because less oxygen 18 is being lofted out of the oceans. Right. Mhm. So when there when it's uh cold you're going to have more 18 to 16 in the oceans. When it's warm you're going to have more uh 18 relative to 16. preserved for example in ice courtes and that's what's going on here. So shifts to the left mean cold shifts to the right mean warm. Okay so this is the last you look down the right the vertical side here you see 10 that's 10,000 years ago and this is this is a depth of 1500 m in the Greenland ice. So 1 1500 meters of ice have accumulated in 10,000 years uh at the summit of Greenland. Uh show and it like it's showing here it show shows temperature constantly and repeatedly warming and cooling 2 to three degrees Fahrenheit or more. Right now look at this little spike down here. This is called the it was a 200year roughly cold spell in the middle of the postglacial climatic optimum was possibly 3 to 4° very sudden cooling. If it happened now it would cause major disruptions to agriculture and and uh agricultural crops and food production. uh it would probably in fact severely stress civilization. This is again was a century or two of of really cold weather. Uh and then notice something here as we come up near closer to the present. Notice that the magnitude of these oscillations increases. Now, if if I turn this on the side, you could actually see that um that the climate has cooled since what's called the the the postglacial climatic optimum. During the climatic optimum, temperatures worldwide were 1 to 3° warmer than now. Sea level studies, and I've got dozens of them, show that during this warm period, sea levels were three, four, five, even six feet higher than now. This is wellestablished but again this is not being talked about because it doesn't fit the paradigm because there's a political agenda now which wants to make people believe that anything that's happening now in terms of climate change or environmental change is the consequence of human activity primarily the burning of fossil fuels right but yet when we look in the past what we discover is evidence that completely contradicts predicts this model that previous to the industrial revolution the climate was steady state. It most certainly was not. And this polyine graph right here shows that it is regularly oscillated every few decades up to one to even in sometimes up to two and three degrees. But what's interesting is when to me really interesting is when we get down here to about the 1500 meter depth 10,000 years ago, we see we see the the the graph trailing off to the left. Well, the reason is it's this is it's the last phase of coming out of the ice age right here, the last most recent ice age. So if I go to the next uh slide I've just taken that's what we just saw and this represents climatic change over the last 10,000 years. Now the ice core goes down to bedrock and it goes back 250,000 years. Right? So now let's take a look at uh evidence for what kind of climate changes were going on prior to the holysine which the holysine is the modern epoch the last it's now dated to interestingly to 11,600 years ago. It's associated with meltwater pulse 1b and coincidentally coincides with the Egyptian story of the 9,000 year sacred registers uh prior to Solon's time. Remember Solon uh visited Egypt in 600 BC. Add the 9,000 years 11,600. Look up the inception of the holysine 11,600. Look up Meltwater Pulse 1B 11,600. So, now let's go back uh 250,000 years and see what the climate was doing. Yeah. Yeah. It's crazy. It's crazy. Yeah. How come we're not talking about this? Well, because it doesn't fit the narrative. Something was going on here. I mean, you want to talk about global warming? Look at this down here. This is the so-called emian marine isotope stage 5e right here. Sea levels were up to 40 to 50 ft higher than they are now during this warm period right here. Greenland ice cap no more than half the mass of a pres. It was melted so much back that it actually formed two distinct ice masses with a huge conduit between them. You could travel across Greenland from east to west where now the ice dome is. That's how much the Greenland ice sheet melted during this period of the emian which was is dated now to 116,000 to 139,000 years ago. 13,000 years half of a processional cycle. And that was the emian. What in the world is going on here? Is that the sun? I don't know. I think Robert Shack would make an argument, a strong argument that this might be solarinduced. I don't know. But this is we need we need more studies unburdened by the constrictions of political narratives and politically driven agendas to address questions like this. Is what what is the norm? Is this the norm or is this the norm? Well, for glacier versus interglacial, I guess, right? This this is interglacial. We've got interglacials. Look right here. This is this is the younger dus. This spike to the left you see right here. Yep. That's the younger dus. Yep. So, you see that the climate went through a spasm of warming right here. And that spasm of warming is meltwater pulse 1A 14,600 years ago. Then it slammed back into full glacial cold and then there was a second spike of warming here and that's meltwater pulse 1b and you have these two rapid pulses of sea level rise. So is this basically saying that I mean if there's more ice on the calves so so going back you know past 15,000 years or whatever obviously the the global temperatures are going to be colder but but there's going to be more dramatic more volatile changes in temperature as when when there's more when there's more ice in totality when temperatures are lower there's going to be more volatility. Correct. Yeah. Yeah. And then there's going to be some events like whether it's solar or whatever freaking aliens or something, you know, who knows? But but that that uh that that that that cause that huge spike from time to time. It it makes uh makes human you know human survival in one place for extended periods of time very challenging because the climate's constantly changing and and so the food that you you know the the animals that you hunt or the whatever food that you're growing or whatever trees exist or plants that you're eating or shrubs it's going to change. So it would be obviously more difficult to establish you know some Yeah. So, two key terms here, resilience and adaptability, right? They were masters of adaptability, our ancestors. Yep. To survive a couple hundred thousand years of what we just saw. Now, the critic would say, "Oh, well, that's just Greenland. That's that's only local." Well, no, it's not local. We know now from proxy studies from all over the planet. Was it uniformly severe everywhere? No, because there were some places um where the effects of global change were were milder. Now, if we look at using as our as our proxy the loss of species at the end of the last ice age, right? So, you got over a 100 species of megapa went extinct. And that could be 120. It depends on how you divide the species up, but just for round numbers, 100 species, probably more. Where was the greatest concentration of species lost? North America. And a very close second was South America. So, North America and South America both lost in the ballpark of 3/4 of megaponal species. And a megapana is a is an animal over 100 pounds in body weight about 44 kg. Right? So North America, South America lost 3/4 of all species over 100 pounds in body weight. Eurasia was about 35% and Africa was about 10%. What how would you interpret that? A solar impact into the Americas something. I mean, not solar, but like a a a like a comet impact into something some something that that hit the Americas harder than it hit the rest of the world. Something we'll leave it undefined for now, although I would certainly lean towards an impact event uh as the as the most likely candidate. Yeah. Um but yeah, so what happened was America lost most of its megaponal large megaponal species. Africa lost the least amount. So when you look at Africa, the Serengeti plane, and you're seeing the rhinos and the elephants and the hippos and the giraffes and the the the water buffalo, the big animals, those are most of those are the place to see holdovers, right? Didn't go extinct, right? And it could be it could be in part that Africa's climate and and terrain and the food sources that that were abundant in Africa just because of the because of the type of of of food and climate and terrain that exists within Africa that it was more hearty and that it just it just survived and that that it was a bit more delicate in the United States and in in North and South America. Uh but yeah, definitely seems like it hit closer to home over here. Yeah, I I kind of think of North America as ground zero for whatever happened. And I again, we we could do another conversation sometime. I could show you the evidence that I've accumulated that would suggest that it was some kind of an impact related event. Yeah, that seems like the most likely. Now, now you've said the the end of the last ice age a couple of times, but but I mean we're it's is it really the end or are we just in an interglacial period and going back into the same ice age? you that's that's a fundamental question that you've just asked and that's an important question because when we look at uh previous interglacials now one of the things you got to bear in mind looking at this graph is the it's been compressed right so if we were to stretch it out so you had the same uh you know uh the same ratios as the as on the y ais what you would see is that there are interglacials in that in there, but most of them with the exception of the emian were shorter than the holy. In fact, it looks like, you know, 5 to 8,000 years typically was about how long an interglacial lasted. Um, and we're we're 10 11,000 years into the holy. And this is why I think it's very important that we try to come to grips with understanding, you know, what's going on here, what's changing and and can't the if if the Gulf Stream shuts down, for example, because the Earth heats up a little bit more or because of whatever whatever happens, doesn't that push us back into the depths of an ice age if that gets shut off? Well, that is an interesting question. Now it is evidence that the that the uh the the the ocean circulation was interrupted right during the deglaciation phase. But the thing you have to bear in mind is that there were gigantic uh flows into the North Atlantic. I mean we're talking about billions of cubic feet per second. There's nothing like that going on now. So we're looking at a completely different set of circumstances when it looks like the thermo thermmoaline circulation was uh was interrupted at the end of the last ice age. Um so I'm not concerned too much about we don't see anything comparable to the influx of water into the North Atlantic now like we did during those meltwater pulses. Right. Um, I should have a Yeah. Um, yeah, we want to know what's next, Randall. I mean, you got to tell us, man. Are we going back into an ice age? And and, uh, when's it going to happen, man? Okay. Well, I think one of the, you know, one of the big picture things that I look at is I think that our planet, we're part of a cosmic ecosystem. Involve changes. Solar changes. It involve changes in the cosmic environment. Like for example, uh galactic uh rays seem to also fluctuate like larger scale events even on the galactic level might be affecting us in our solar system. We can see that in the type of isotopic evidence because typically in normal solar times you got the solar wind which acts as a buffer and insulates earth from uh the direct bombardment of galactic cosmic rays which cause spalation of neutrons which leaves uh an leaves a proxy evidence uh like carbon 14 and burillium 10. uh burillium 10 we can find in ice cores. Carbon 14 we find in organic material, trees and plants and so on. And if there's a sudden spike of burillium 10 or carbon 14, what that suggests is that there was a greater influx of galactic cosmic rays which then in turn suggests that the sun was in a period of very low activity. And so the buffering effect of the sun now has allowed because of the diminishment in the power of the sun, the solar wind, you now have a greater influx of of cosmic rays. The sun also now also we know from the early 90s and solar observing satellites uh seems to have a much higher degree of variability than we had previously assumed. Okay. So the same thing can happen if you the sun goes into a hyperactive phase. You will get proxy fingerprints that show again the same thing. They're different but it you know I don't want to get into too much of the technical explanation because we're running out of time. But um clearly uh there are many variables that work here and sometimes they may work in such a way that they reinforce each other. uh uh shall we say constructive amplification. Other times they may uh you know uh mitigate each other, right? So it's there's a lot of work that needs to be done in sorting this out. This is why we need true science, authentic science unburdened by political agendas to try to understand the true and authentic environmental history of this planet. Right? You know, one of the things might be I think that in the larger framework uh impact events could be behind a lot of it, right? Uh um uh also including enhanced spikes of seismic activity and volcanism. And we see that in the this tremendous mass transfer that took place when you had 6 to 7 million cubic miles of glacial ice piled up on the continental land masses rapidly melting and and transferring back into the oceans. Two things now that evidence is emerging that there was massive seismic activity and earthquakes and a huge spike of volcanism. And it only makes sense, right? because the pressures of transfer removing that ice from the from the continents and the isoatic rebound after that ice is removed. Likewise, the transfer of these trillions and trillions of tons of weight, say, back into the oceans, you're now going to have an isoatic depression and that's going to be concentrated along the the the sutures where the continental spreading is taking place because that's the most that those are the weak zones in the Earth's crust. So it only makes sense and empirical data supports that that there were significant vertical movements of the ocean floors during this period of mass transfer that would cause accelerated volcanism. There could be all kinds of consequences. There could be feedback loops that take thousands of years to to play out. I would go even so far as to speculate that maybe some of the volcanism and earthquake activity that we're seeing today might be residual from what happened 10 to 15,000 years ago. Sure. Could be. Yeah. As a possibility. Yeah. Absolutely. Yeah. It's interesting. And and you know, we we I mentioned AI a little bit earlier and we talked about that a little bit earlier as a way to to kind of tell us a little bit about what the human past has looked like or what the geological past has looked like. But it can probably also help us with what is the future going to look like, you know? It can probably also help us predict like what's what's what what what's really happening like like what's really happening with the polls for example, you know, like is Ben Davidson right or is Stefon Burns right? you know, like are we is there about to be a pole flip or is this just a normal um what you know, excursion, you know, or um so, you know, are we headed into a another are we headed back into the depths of the ice age or are we going to be in this interglacial period for you know, a few more thousand years? It's like it it feels like and it doesn't seem like anybody can hide that information from us from the people is it's not like you can have a gatekeeper or various governments could hide that because AI is going to be out there for everybody. Not anymore. Right. Not anymore. Um right. I you know again if you look at the precedent you know the emian was the period that was considered to be the closest analog to the holene. And we now know though that there were major climatic fluctuations within the emian that go way beyond what we've seen within the holysine. But um again going by the precedent uh and looking at interglacial periods I mean this was part of what fueled the concern in the 70s um because there was a cool between the 1940s and the early 1980s the climate was actually cooling. Um at the same time we're discovering that uh these climatic changes had happened way quicker than anybody had imagined. Um, and so the fear was that, okay, well, if if the interglacials are only 5 to 10,000 years, and we've already been in the holene for at least 10,000 years, maybe it's all coming to an end, right? Uh, I don't know. I don't know. But I am definitely an advocate of more study, more more scientific work. And I also believe that the testimony, the legacy of our ancestors that's come down to us in the form of myth and legends and so on is going to be highly instructive and valuable in making sense out of this. In fact, I think that the scientific record and the mythic record, if you want to call it that, are perfect complements of each other. Yeah. To combine those and to to try to understand what Yeah. to spit out some some knowledge. Yep. Yep. Two quick quotes here. One was from um one, okay, this is from an editorial that appeared in Nature immediately after the publication of the uh graph that we were just looking at. Right? This is by Richard Fairbanks. He was with Lamont Doherty Earth Observatory and he was one of the people studying and analyzing these ice cores. Now bear in mind that a generation or two before the belief was the transition out of the ice age might have been a process that took 30 to 50,000 years. And then as radiocarbon dating came along it was shortened to perhaps 10 to 15,000 years. And now we're getting the isotopic dating. We're getting uh the Greenland ice cores. And what we're finding there is is pretty sobering actually. And this is this is the quote from measurements. And this is referring again to this graph that we're we're just looking at. From measurements of annual ice layer thickness over the past 15,000 years. The authors find that the Greenland's that Greenland's climate and we just saw the graph of the the closeup I showed you of the younger dryest and the two warming spikes right associated with meltwater pulses for measurements of annual isolator thickness over the past 15,000 years. The authors find the Greenland's climate emerging from the last ice age twice shifted from glacial to interglacial conditions over an astonishingly quick 3 to 5 years. Wow. Yeah. This is what the record of the earth is is is instructing us about this. Yeah. That's crazy, man. And they asked somebody, anybody who tells you now, Matt, from now on, oh, well, the science of climate change is settled. Yeah. Yeah. Don't believe him. Yep. Now, that's not to say we I I'm totally of the philosophy we need to be good stewards of this planet. We absolutely do. But our stewardship needs to be based upon real science, authentic science. And again, if we're here and you know, we at one time shared this planet with other homminid species, right? I mean, I think 14 other homminid species have been identified, all of which are extinct. We're we're like the last man standing. Mhm. I think it's coming down on us. We need to be adaptable and resilient because whether it happens in our lifetimes, I think there's no doubt these changes are ongoing. they're in our future. Uh but I think that once we understand them, I think we can we can create a sustainable civilization. And this would be a topic for maybe our our next conversation is how do we take this knowledge and apply it to creating a civilization that might actually survive for millennia? Right. Right. Yeah. Yeah. What do we need to do to create a civilization that's going to be able to survive through climate change, through ups and downs on temperature, through crop changes? Like, what do we need to get ourselves off of in terms of the supply chain? Do you know are there like we we we go around in Florida. We're going out and we're we're planting all these non-native trees and and and none of them produce any food or fruit and we're pumping pumping water out out of the water table to keep all this this lawn grass irritate ir irrigated and all these these non-native trees irrigated and it's like why like why not use regular field grass? Like why not plant trees that actually give us food and then you know something bad does happen. We we we're not like we're not just stuck on this supply chain of of depending on Walmart for our freaking survival like you know 100%. Yeah. So I would Yeah. for years advocated and endorsed the idea that you know the lawn culture there's a I love a nice little strip of lawn. Even when we kid, you know, we had some uh, you know, we had lawn in Minnesota and I remember hot days after working on the neighbor's farm. I'd come home and I would love to lay in the cool grass, you know, as the sun is getting low in the sky. And, you know, it makes a nice buffer between 100% nature and your your livedin environment, but it's completely beyond. To me, it's like, "Hey, give me one nice little maybe, you know, 20 by 20, 30 by 30 of of lawn. Let me have the rest devoted to food crops." Yeah. Imagine if in suburbia we traded out the lawn culture for growing food crops, right? Right. Then there's no dependence on anybody. Yeah. And then if there's an interruption in the supply chain, it's not that big of a deal. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah, I went down to Peru in the Sacred Valley and was driving around there and you know as as as there's not a lot of money down there obviously, but people are growing their own food, you know, so it's like it's it's not as if people are out on the streets committing crimes like you know it's not like they're struggling from for survival from the standpoint that they can't eat and that they've got to go out and rob everybody, you know. So it's like, yeah, people are poor. Yeah, housing is is a challenge, but but you know, people are eating, man, you know, and and like that's that's such a huge part of like if we can't figure that out as a society and like but the government doesn't want us to figure out, you know, they they want us to continue to be relying upon upon upon them. And so, nobody's going to help us with this. But as a people, we've got to start to start realizing some of this stuff like 100% agreement what you just said. The government wants to foster dependence. Yeah. No doubt. No doubt. No doubt. And And we I think we're moving and we want independence. Yep. I kind of think of it as there's a new independence movement to foot. And I want to see it I want to see it proliferate. Me too. Me too. Uh very much so. I'm going to have to run. You probably do too. But I feel like there's a lot of conversations in our future. Um, and we're growing a really an audience um, of people who are just, I think, hungry for these kinds of ideas. And I certainly don't claim to have the final word on anything, but I have been thinking about this stuff, studying it, researching it for over half a century. Yep. I came out of high school in 18. I kind of made a commitment to myself. I thought, I want to become an educated man. I want to become educated. What does that mean? So I set about using most of my spare time from 1969 to now engaged in study and research and learning. And I feel like now I don't have the final answers to everything. No, not by a long shot. But I have some insights that I think that I could share that would help those coming behind me on this quest, save them some time, right? Um because my mentors, the people that I looked up to, studied under, read, etc., they're basically all gone now, you know, and it's a little bit scary and disconcerting when I finally realize I'm kind of on the point on the tip of the sword right now, you know? Uh and it's a kind of a weird feeling like I think I want to retire to my my layer here. You see, I've created this layer with with everything I want that I've fantasized for decades, and now here it is. You have to drag me kicking and screaming out of it. But um but yeah, there's, you know, we're looking at possibly a tour to the Azors. Nice. Focused on Atlant the Atlantis story. Nice. Nice. Um but yeah, there's all kinds of things and and I'd love to keep sharing it with you. I think we've had some great discussions. This is our third discussion now, right? Yep. This is our third. Yeah, we did two on my show and this is the first one we've done on yours and Yeah, man. I mean, you are carrying the torch, Randall. I mean, like you you said it and for an entire generation, you're educating people about like about, you know, stuff that people aren't getting anywhere else. I know that you you were inspiring to me. Um I'm pro I might not be, you know, podcasting if it wasn't for you. you know, I mean, you you get hit by a lot of different things in your life, but but just seeing you and and Graham on on Joe Rogan a number of years ago, like totally opened up my mind to so many different possibilities about just, you know, uh Earth's history and and human history. So, um no, man, you're you're uh you're not retiring anywhere. You got to keep educating people. You got to keep doing what you're doing, right? I'm yeah I'm I'm looking into uh you know protocols that might hopefully add a couple of decades. You know you get to that age you're a little bit behind me but you know you get to this age you know once I cross that big seven decade threshold I could tell the machine is got some wear and tear on it and I need an upgrade. You know I need to overhaul the machine. Yep. I'm doing pretty good. But you're doing great man. And you're doing great. Well, I can do better. Yeah. So, again, I hope we can keep this dialogue going. I'm really looking forward to the Cosmic Summit, hanging out with you there. I'm sure maybe we can grab dinner together one night. I'd like for you to You've met Julie. Oh, yeah. Julie was here. Yes. Jesse. Yeah, of course. They were in the studio. They were. Yep. Uh Jesse, he's looking forward to the uh to the summit. Good. there's something interesting to talk about with him uh as far as you know uh some of the uh medicinals that he's been on and and the the some pretty impressive changes. Okay. That we've seen in the last year. Okay. Um so I mean yeah, we got a lot to talk about. Yeah, for sure. For sure. No, I look forward to it, man. I look forward to seeing you for sure at Cosmic Summit and and getting together. My wife's going to be there as well, so uh yeah, I look forward to seeing you and Julie and Jesse and uh um yeah, for sure. I mean, you know, I'd love to continue to have you as a guest. You're always one of the one of the favorites. You're my number one episode. So, your your your first episode that we did is the number one episode on YouTube. On YouTube. So, Okay. Well, I like hearing that. Yeah. Yeah. No doubt. No doubt. Yeah. Yeah. For sure. All right. Well, I think maybe we can surpass that. For sure. Oh, we will. We will. No. Yeah. I mean, my my numbers are getting up there. Yep. which is good because it's actually giving me a little more resources to work with cuz I've pretty much worked on a shoestring for years. You know, all of the the tours that I'm doing now that started around six or seven years ago were preceded by my my buddy and colleague Brad Young and usually a small group of guys going out on our own dime all the recon and exploring these landscapes for 20 years plus before it actually turned into guided tours where I'm taking dozens of people out to these sites and essentially teaching them the language. anguage of the earth. One of the one of the I'll leave you with this um quote. It's from the forget which chapter. It's from the book of Job and it's kind of been one of my guiding uh uh ideas since for for decades ever since I first encountered it because I do I love reading the Bible along with other spiritual literature. But you know I kind of read it from a different perspective maybe than most people. But but this quote from Job, "Speak to the earth. Speak to the earth and it will teach thee." I love it. Yeah. Love it. Yeah. That's powerful. Yeah. All right. Yes, sir. It's a good one to end on, my friend. Good one to end. All right, Matt. See you in a few weeks. Yep. See you then. Great to chat with you, man. So long, Ryan. See you, Ryan. See you back. All right, Randall. We'll see you. Okay. Is will Ryan be there at the I will be there. Ryan will be there. Yeah. Okay. Yep. Yep. So maybe we'll do more this time, Ryan, and passing in the elevator. We're getting out and off the elevator. We'll figure this out. We'll figure it out soon enough. Yeah, that was great, Randall. I really appreciate it, man. That was a great conversation. It was. I enjoyed it, too.