#17 What Geologists Won’t Say About the Carolina Bays | Chris Cottrell

[Music] Sounds like this debate's been raging since the 30s amongst geologists. Is this one of the big mysteries in like North American geology? >> I would think so. Yeah, I think so for sure. And if this is caused by an impact, this would have been a huge huge deal. We know for sure that there was a major impact 786,000 years ago that we don't know where it happened. A guy who has a PhD in physics, he's on board with everything we've said. He thinks the physics doesn't support them being solid when they hit the ground that they would have burst before they hit the ground. They call them Carolina bays because of the uh the bay trees that grow inside them. They all kind of point to the same source. They say that science changes one funeral at a time. >> In case you've never heard of a Carolina bay, let me give you a little intro. There are like 75 to 500,000 perfect ellipses smattered across the United States. I'm being for real. If if you haven't heard of this, they're called Carolina Bays. Something happened at some period in the past, we don't know when, to cause all of these perfect ellipses, and here's a really strange detail that seem to point towards an epicenter. They all point like in the same direction scattered across the US. Look into it. You might have one near you. Chris Catrell is a high school science teacher from the state of Georgia who's been studying this. Thank goodness for him because someone needs to be studying this. He has some new details. Why would we have some new details now if we've been debating it since the 1930s after we first observed them from airplanes? It's because he now can use lidar. So Chris has the photos to prove it and he's got some new information for us. If you're curious at all about Carolina bays, welcome to the Austin and Matt podcast. Dang. >> Well, I want to start at 10,000 ft. So my understanding of how the world began was 65 million years ago an asteroid maybe hit the Yucatan and there's a lot of and then much much later humans came and my understanding is there's a lot of stories of a great flood and like 200 different cultures there was a great flood Noah's flood and what people are saying now people like Graham Hancock I think are saying that that was like 12,000 years ago and there are some geologists who have come out and said well the Carolina bays which are these odd odd swamp looking things in my mind around scattered around the United States may have been a result of an impact that actually blasted the whole US and then created a sort of like introduced a bunch of energy into earth and it started melting everything and that's where the latest ice age would have ended kind of and so that's my understanding of of Carolina bays and what's called the younger driest impact theory. >> Yeah. Yeah. And and to be honest, I don't know how uh how much the two are related. Um but but it is it is a neat way to pull people in to to those stories. Um in fact, when I first learned about a lot of this stuff as well, it was from a friend of mine who was, you know, he was a a Bible thumping creationist and and he heard uh the the 2015 Joe Rogan and Rand Carlson podcast and he was like, "Look at this. You got to see this. I mean, global floods, man. It happened. It happened." And uh I was actually finishing my master's degree in geoccience from Mississippi State. And uh a lot of what Randall Carlson was talking about, you know, matched what I was learning about in in graduate level geology classes. I was like, there might be something to this. And so that kind of like fed me back into that rabbit hole of of looking into a lot of that uh geology and and seeing how it matches up with a lot of that stuff. Um, and and I don't know, but I I know that where it took me with the Carolina Bays, this is it's a pretty fascinating story. It's there's really interesting, you know, topics that that come up with that. So >> So what did you do? You hear about Carolina bays. We're down here in Florida. There's some around here and all up the east coast. >> Yeah. What did you do? >> Yeah. We're in coastal Georgia and this is about the the lowest extent of where you start finding them. Um, about maybe 45 minutes west of here, you start finding a couple Carolina bays here and there. They call them Carolina bays because of the uh the bay trees that grow inside them. It's not like a a water bay, which a lot of people that confuses a lot of people, but they're these elliptical shaped depressions. And once you get into the Carolinas, the terrain is covered in these elliptical shaped depressions all the way through the Carolinas. So the the unconsolidated coastal plane is speckled from from top to bottom with these Carolina bays. >> And how big are they? They could be um anywhere from, you know, a couple hundred meters to to a couple kilometers, miles wide. Yeah. Some of them are huge. There's whole towns and cities within some of these Carolina bays. They're really large. >> How deep are they? >> Uh they're really shallow. That's the other thing. They're they're really large and really shallow. Um and and as you were, you know, alluding a minute ago, you know, we do think that they're impact related. um not quite from the fragments of a comet breaking up or things like that, but we think that there was an impact into an ice sheet and it was the ejecta from that ice sheet that came launched from that source. We think it was over Michigan uh and um the ice came crashing back down and that's what created these elliptical shaped depressions all over the coast. And I mean, like I said, when you when LAR became a thing, that should have changed a lot of opinions about Carolina Bays because previous to that, they always thought that they were well, it's kind it's a it's a complex story because back in the 30s when they first had aerial flight, uh they started noticing these Carolina bays and um they they instantly thought what you were talking about, you know, that there was a huge, you know, explosion in the sky and it was it was comments of of of uh uh asteroids or whatever meteors that were that were coming crashing down to the earth. Um but they all have a certain um directionality to them. They all kind of point to the same source and then you know like said this is back in the 30s. Uh but they never found fragments of comets within them. They never found um you know any kind of meteor fragments, anything large enough to like you know draw enough attention to it. And so like geology or geologists do, you know, they're like, "Well, then it must be something more mundane. It must be gradual. It must be something that that took thousands and thousands of years for these things to create." Um, and that's the direction that they went. And so they, you know, for a long time they they say that they're ponds. They were all ponds and they were swirling around water during the ice age and that's what created these elliptical shapes. But and they compare them a lot to the ones in Alaska. They have oriented lakes in Alaska. Um, but they're they're not the same thing. And like I said, now we have LAR and we can actually use technology of today to say, you know, that's that's not what happened. These things are way too mathematically elliptical. They're way too uh similar to each other that gradual processes can't do that. It's just it can't happen. >> So, what did you do when you heard about the Carolina Bays? How do you how do you go about researching this? You're finishing your masters >> and what do you >> Well, so I I first heard about Carolina Bays gosh uh 25 years ago. >> Okay. Yeah, it had been 99 2000 when I was going to college in South Georgia. Um I went to a local uh a smaller school um in south central South Georgia called Valdastasa State University and they had a um a spot called Grand Bay and uh it was actually a field trip in the geology class and uh we went out there and you you kind of go out into the middle of the swamp. Um you know most of the Carolina bays are really swampy. They're they're lowlying swampy areas and they usually don't have outlets so they hold a lot of water right there. Um and on this field trip we went out to the middle and there's like a 100 foot tower and you can climb all the way up to the top of the tower and um you know just just see this huge I thought it was circular but this huge circular swamp all the way around you and I remember asking my professor I was like you know it's really cool but how did this form like how did it become so circular circular like this? Um, and even back in I think it was the year 2000, um, he said that, uh, he's like, well, you know, they're they're called Carolina Bays. He told me they were called Carolina Bays, um, and that it was a pond and the wind shaped them into that direction. He did say though back in the year 2000 that there are some people that think that there was a cosmic impact uh, that created them or that they may have been formed from a catastrophic, you know, but but he he waved that off pretty quick. was like, you know, but but that's not what we, you know, we're going to go with the wind and water. >> Yeah. >> And Yeah. And and so they I was fascinated then. That's actually how I first came across George Howard stuff was was researching that back in the year 2000. That's before we even had Google, I think. You know, so I think I was asking Jeves like, you know, what's Carolina base? Jeez, tell me. And uh and uh it actually brought up George's website, you know, George George Howard, who who we all know. um brought up his website and uh >> yeah, we had him on the podcast. He was our first episode and he said that he actually has georgeard.com and he put the Carolina Bay stuff on George Howard.com. He said for years his site just had the SEO of returning Carolina Bays stuff because that was gorgeard.com. >> Yep. Yep. Yep. And you know, not to retell his story, but you know, it was 15 years prior to that that he was first introduced to Carolina Bays himself, right? you know, he he was working for uh he was working at the Senate and the the senator he was working for lived in North Carolina and wanted, you know, some some topographic maps because that's what we had back then. We had topo maps. And George was like, you know, what are these elliptical things all over all over your property? And uh that's when he says uh the the old North Carolina senator, "Well, they're they're meteor holes. >> There's ellipses all over the map." He said meteor holes, >> you know, and he tells a whole story about how, you know, he was, you know, back in the 30s when he was a boy, you know, they had this meteor or they they they first discovered them and they they, you know, credited them to uh to meteors impact in the ground. Um, but like I said, that was because they had aerial photos back then. Um, even in the year 2000, we were still using aerial photos. We didn't have Google Earth or anything yet. Um, and I can remember, um, making mosaics by printing out, you know, 8 by11 sheets of paper and, you know, of like of an area and then pacing them all together to get a big mosaic. And uh actually while I was at school is when they started rolling out the uh GIS labs uh the geographic information systems and they they started to um you know that became much more popular right after I graduated of course so I didn't get to use it but >> so what makes these so interesting? Why are they such a unique geological formation? >> Well it's I think it's the the ellipt ellipticity of them you know like how elliptical that they are because they like I said that's not something that you normally find in nature. Um, you know, they in Florida, even close to where I was at in Valdasta, you know, we had sink holes and that's what I was kind of aiming at. I was like, "This must be like a huge sinkhole underneath this thing and it's kind of filled in over time." And that's when the professor was like, "No, actually, this is something completely different." Uh, and and come to find out, like I said, you start getting into the Carolinas and it's just covers the train like all the way across the the Carolinas all the way up to pretty much uh pretty much to New York. So, um, and then as I was getting at a minute ago, um, more recently, uh, about, I want to say it's about 20 25 years ago, uh, they found that the Nebraska rainwater basins have like the same identical um, elliptical shapes and orientation just in the opposite direction. So, they actually all point to one spot over Michigan, which is fascinating. So these are ovular in shape and then as you go up the coast they kind of turn and then over in Nebraska they also are facing the other direction to where all of the ovals are pointing directly over Michigan. >> Y >> and it's a grand scale. >> Yes. It's it's like I said it whatever happened was huge, you know, but the the currently academic and I say the currently academic accepted hypothesis because it's they're all still hypothesis. we don't know like this is a true mystery which is kind of cool right you know because we're all in the mystery man the mystery mystery machine like we're all we're all trying to solve it right now uh and so even the academic side they're they're always going to focus on a gradualistic explanation for pretty much anything geological right and that's what they're looking at at that the Carolina bays and then you've got like catastrophism which is like some something's sometimes things happen really quick and that's what I think these Carolina bays and the Nebraska rainwater basins are an effect of like an impact over an ice sheet over, you know, over Michigan and at some time in the past and that's something that's, you know, another whole different debate on when it could have happened, but but uh yeah, I think that there was a huge in I impecc um the the one in the Yucatan that took out the dinosaurs. I I tend to lean in the direction that it was a very similar event. The biggest difference was instead of this thing hitting a shallow sea and causing you know tsunamis and and you know ash to block out the sun for for uh you know months at a time um that this hit an ice sheet which is much more forgiving and and we were ended up with these Carolina bays everywhere and and we're finding now evidence that there was a lot of um side effects of this impact too. So, no matter when it happened, like I said, right now there's a couple different time frames we can look at. Um, but it would have been a major major deal and I think the ice actually saved us. I think it >> Yeah, cuz it would have hit an ice sheet that would have been about how thick? >> Uh, depending on when it happened. Um, we know that one of the time frames is the younger dest. And that's the most popular um, you know, direction >> and that's like 12,000 years ago. Yeah. 12,900 years ago because we are finding a lot of evidence right now um of an impact happening at that time. um you know the younger dress boundary is is um there's been a lot of research into the black matte layer and the and the platinum that they're finding there and the micro diamonds and um so something happened 12,000 you know 860 years ago in July or >> when you when you say the you say the younger dus how do you say it stratum or level layer you >> yeah the black they have there is a black matte layer that they found so and I'm pretty sure George talked about this in in your podcast as Well, um the big hack that they did, uh the the comet research group did um who who are the main investigators into an impact happening at the end of the last ice age. Um uh which is the the younger dest time frame. Um they went to Clovisites, known Clovisites that that >> of the Clovis people. >> The Clovis people. Yeah. Because their culture pretty much collapsed at the same time. >> Um again, the same time that we're finding all of this proxy evidence too, right? the big magma mammals went extinct at this time. You know, all here where where we're filming the podcast in this in my bunker down here. You know, we would have had ground sloths. We would have had a couple different types of um of elephant species. You know, uh um you know, they had the woolly mammoth and the mastadons. They were all right here, you know. They we had mastadons and we had the um the gipadons, the huge armadillos wandering around down here, the saber-tooth cats. you know, we had there was all kinds of stuff that were here and they're all gone. They all went extinct during that time frame, you know, that that young and dry time frame. So, something major happened, right? And and so there are some people that uh think that the event would have been so large that it could be the same event that created these Carolina bays if they were created by an impact. >> And it sounds like this debate's been raging since the 30s amongst geologists. Is is this one of the big mysteries in like North American geology? >> I would think so. Yeah, I think so for sure. And and the the biggest it's almost comical how little attention it's gotten, right? >> Yeah. >> You know, because they are so We'll look at some pictures in a minute, but you know, how many that there are all across the uh the eastern United States, it's if this is caused by an impact, this would have been a huge huge deal. It would have been a big deal. What I find so interesting is how they're all directionally facing the same destination point or at least the origination point and then the fact that they discovered more in Nebraska that also so on the other side you can imagine one blast blasts in all directions over to the left to the west towards Nebraska and the east towards that and all of the ovals point in the exact same direction. >> Yeah. I I say I use the analogy that they're like a like a whole classroom full of third graders and you know you get caught doing something bad you know they're like you know they're all pointing right at the the problem source right they're all pointing right at Michigan literally at Michigan and and >> where they're pointing there is a huge depression there is a huge geologic depression or a um a basin the Michigan basin is right where they're all pointing and like I said we'll look at some pictures in a minute it's like a bullseye. There literally is a bullseye. >> Is it near Meno Island? Is it close to the >> No, no. The the the Michigan basin is pretty much the entire state of Michigan. No way. Yeah. Like like inside the the Great Lakes, that whole that whole >> the the what they call the mitten. >> Yeah. >> It was almost acted like a catch catcher mitt because I think the ice sheet right on top of that got hammered. And so as I understand it, basically if a meteor hits the ground, it creates microtubules, nano diamonds, all of these things like the black mat that you're talking about that are only created generally from a meteor impact, maybe some lightning. >> Yeah. Right now though, there the the the comet research group um they haven't found any craters yet. Right. Right. >> Now, if they hit the ice sheet, then again, I think that we would have something and we don't have enough science right now to to cross that off the list because we I mean, when have we ever studied an impact into an ice sheet? We haven't we haven't there was one that happened in uh on on Mars and we have like video you know or not video we have picture evidence of it. Um yeah we just we don't have enough science behind glacial impacts. We don't >> it reminds me of like an airbag or like a stunt man jumping out of a building and instead of falling on the ground and g making a huge indent he hits the airbag and it cushions him then sprays all the air out. But this is this is a huge >> and so imagine like there being loose ice on that spray and it just being launched into the air, you know? That's that's what we're talking about. >> Well, like the size of icebergs almost. >> These would have been huge. I mean, >> icebergs flying through the sky hitting Nebraska basically. >> Yeah. Some like if if if the science is accurate, some of these could have been some of the ejected ice could have been the size of like stadiums like like huge like really really large chunks of ice leaving >> Michigan going up into the atmosphere. Now, there's some debate. I actually recently was talking with a guy who has a PhD in physics and and he is adamant he he has actually on board with everything we've said about Carolina bays uh with the exception of how they form perfect ellipses and he thinks that uh that as they came back into the atmosphere that there's no the physics doesn't support them being solid when they hit the ground that they would have burst before they hit the ground and it's actually the shock wave of the air burst that created the elliptical shapes. I'm if he could back it up with science. I'm all about listening and uh and changing and and you know I'm not I'm not I'm not out to to like get anybody or anything like that. I've been following the science for a long time and uh you know if it if it takes me in another direction I'm not I'm I'm okay with doing that. So um so yeah, Airbururst could be a a conclusion for that too. So we'll see. Um but like I said that that's new. >> So when do you think this happened? So, so for a long time I did think the younger dus because that's been a sexy topic. You know, you guys have both heard about the younger drius. You you know what it means now. A lot of people still don't a lot of people still have no clue that at the end of our last ice ice age as we were coming out of the ice age that we got rocked back into it for,200 years. A lot of people have no clue that we did that. Um and and again, we don't even have enough evidence and science to back that that it was this event that knocked out all of those, you know, mega males and stuff because just recently they they were blaming us, right? And just recently they were blaming the Clovis people and they're they also went pretty much went extinct, right? Their culture just disappeared then. Um so for a long time I I looked at that and I was like, you know, that's that makes a lot of sense. and and there is a guy um Antonio Zamora. He was at the younger he was at the cosmic summit with me um this this past June and we shared the stage together. So that was kind of cool. Um and and uh you know I was totally on board with his hypothesis that that the Carolina bays were younger in age and that's what knocked out all of these mega mammals and that's what caused the collapse of the Culvis culture and that's where all of this um this proxy evidence came from and things like that. Uh but then a couple and I literally like for a couple years I my my whole YouTube channel was based on that, you know, for for a while and um I uh had an argument with another researcher in the Carolina Bays one night. Um his name is Michael Davies. He's actually the one who uh has provided us with the um the LAR images that you can use with Google Earth now. So you can actually like pull up Google Earth and LAR at the same time. It's freaking phenomenal. It's awesome. Yeah. Um, but he thinks that they were much older and and he also thinks that they were created by this cavitated ejected regalith blanket and it's he's got a whole it's very complex and I feel like the more complex we get that that kind of takes away from where we should be looking. >> It's not AAM's razor. >> Yeah. Well, it could, you know, it could be it could be the simplest that Yeah. Something punched a hole in the ice and it sent ice away. You know, that that's what I to me that's AAM's razor, you know, in action when we're looking at that. Um, but he says he thinks that they are much older. >> How much older? Because right now is 12 and a half thousand years ago versus >> around 800,000 years. >> 800,000. >> 786,000 years ago. So, so what we're looking at is a younger dus or possibly a mid plyene transition time frame. Mid plyosine. Um, so so the plyosene was the age that we were in um during the ice age, right? So as we came out of the last ice age is when we entered the holysine. Um, and >> like what years would the plea scene have been? >> Uh, 3 million years to 12,600 years ago or 800 years ago. Um, and I can't no I can't remember if it's >> I should know this, but I can't remember if it's the beginning of the younger dice or the end of it where the holiday >> 11,500 11,600. Yeah, I want to say it's the end because we did get rocked back into the ice age and then we came out and I think that's when the holiday started. Um I've got a graph somewhere in there that that shows it. But um yeah, so the age before that was the plyene. That was really the time when all the the big mammals were really doing their thing. You know, the the mega, you know, the mass um massedons and mammoths and all that were really thriving throughout the the plyine. But in the middle of it, there was another big hiccup. And and um uh there's actually a couple researchers that are that are on, you know, been doing a lot of research on this. Michael Davis is one. The other one is Tim Harris who I might talk about a little bit later. But um uh it was actually the uh uh the tectites the the AA tectites. >> What's that? >> They're Australia Asian astrala Asian tectites. Um a tectite is like a meteorite but it came from Earth. So it's it's like melted glass that was ejected from an impact site. Uh we have actually some in Georgia just just just you know not far from here. >> So a meteor hits the earth and then some of the dirt that's already on the earth or whatever melts into glass. >> Yeah. Yeah. It hits the energy is so violent. Yeah. So violent that it launches the ejecta the molten ejecta into the atmosphere. It as it's coming back in it resolidifies and and then comes crashing back down. You basically have glass falling onto the earth. >> So meteorite is the actual rock that's falling down. That's a piece of the rock of the meteor. Then the spray of the dirt from the meteor impact it creates a tactite if it liquefies >> pretty much. Yeah. Okay. Yeah. >> Um Yeah. Yeah. >> Uh anyway, so so uh there's a a tectite field all the way on the other side of the planet like like in like Australia um the whole the ocean between Australia and and um like uh Laos and Thailand and that whole area, you know, the the I can't remember the country there, but um >> Indonesia kind of. >> Yeah, the whole Indonesia. They find these these black tectites that are every I actually have a couple of them over there. We can look at them in a minute. But >> um uh they don't know where they came from and and so these these te this whole tectite field is huge and that's a mystery. We don't know where they came from. Uh there are some some scientists that think that it happened actually in Laos, I think, and that that the whole area got covered up in lava and so they're like, "Oh, the evidence is gone now. We don't have it." But um but this guy Tim Harris who used to work for Loheed Martin and and uh and Boeing and you know he's a he's a mechanical engineer and and he's like I you know I've done all the the the physics behind this and and these these suckers came from Michigan. He's like they came from Michigan which is the actual pretty interesting because it's the antipod of Michigan like the where we find most of these tectites is literally on the opposite side of the world. So if something dotted it here, everything comes back around on the other on the inside of the other. Yeah. And so um that's where we find all these these tactes. And so I was like, that's pretty interesting, you know, and uh so we we know for sure that there was a major impact 786,000 years ago that we don't know where it happened. Like we just don't know. We have we know where the the dinosaur killer hit, right? Hitting in the the Chiku hit the Yucatan. Yeah. >> Um but >> how do we know it was 700,000 years ago? It's where they find it in the strata. >> Oh, as they count the layers down, they find it there. >> Yeah. And they found other ways too to they can they can um >> there's another way to date it. Yeah. So using the radioisotopes, things like that. They figure it out. Yeah. >> Um because it was created, you know, the the molten magma was solidified during that time. So um but anyways, um so yeah, they they found they he links it to that. He's got the he's got a really good, you know, solid background to support it. And um uh >> but that's just a theory about where the when the tectides came into formation. Yeah. Is that separate from the Carolina bays? >> Well, okay. So they they're tying the two together. They think that this impact happened. That's where Sagena Bay comes in. You may have heard of Sagenov Bay. Um they think it actually that's the crater was Sagena Bay. It hit the ice above Sagenov Bay. The Sagenov Bay, which it might it might show the directionality of the impact. Um, and that the the missing portion of Sagena Bay is where these tectites came from. And then the ice, their hypothesis is that the ice and the pulverized sandstone, which is what the Michigan basin is made up of. It's it's all sandstones, layers of sandstone, um, that that washed over. And so we actually do have some pretty crazy um, layers of sand across the United States uh, that they they're undated. They can't date them. like where did this where did this huge section of sand come from? It's just completely sterile. There's nothing alive in it. Um no way to date it at all. And so they're like where did that come from? Um so there might be some some truth to what they're saying there too. But they also think they think that the Carolina base formed as this ejected blanket um had air pockets and the pockets were popping. But again, we're talking like a couple mile wide bubble popping. And I'm like I don't know if you would have like perfect elliptical shapes. I could be wrong, but I I I think that you would have different shapes. And >> and you were telling us over dinner, these are perfect shaped. >> Yeah, they that's that's we actually just Antonio Zamore and I just published a paper um in June. It's on the June edition of the Journal of Earth, no the Journal of Environmental Earth Sciences um the June edition of that. And uh we basically are proving that these Carolina bays are perfectly elliptical by using the le squared method. um and we're going around and we're just you have to um mark all the way around the Carolina Bay and then fit it to using the le squares method to show that it's and then we also prove it by um the uh uh looking at the error the percent error of of it. And so anything under 3% we consider darn near perfect. >> Yeah. Not natural >> because they're I mean again there's going to be erosion. There's going to be all kinds of things that can change a shade but if it's under 3% that thing is pretty near and we're finding them like one after another after >> Yeah. How many what percentage of them are under 3%. >> Uh I mean they all haven't been you know >> or that you've surveyed. >> Yeah. I mean like say we can look at images and uh and and just just see like you could just see that they're all like perfectly elliptical. Um >> how many Carolina bays are there >> there? Right now um Michael Davius on he's actually I mentioned him he's um it used to be called the Carolina Bay Survey. uh he has changed it to the ovoid basin survey because he started to include a couple other um I call them pseudo Carolina bay they're not actual I don't think they're part of this story but there's some elliptical not they're not elliptical there's some roundish shaped or ovoid shaped um depressions in Texas that are actually pia play pia lakes and things like that so um but I think he's marked around over 70,000 of them which is pretty darn impressive yeah it's pretty impressive Um, now if you go down to to Wikipedia, they they say there's like half a million of them. Um, that's I don't think it's accurate. The Wikipedia page for Carolina Bays is terrible. It's awful. It's it's it's really bad. It's And like I said, even the just the numbers are are off. And you it would actually support us to say that there was half a million of them. But we're like, "No, if we can if we're going to do it, guys, let's do it right." >> So So he's marked at least 70,000 of these things. And I think he's marked over 70 almost 80,000 total. But like I said, a portion of that are are other ovoid structures. >> Are there a lot of them in Canada as well? >> No. No. And that's the Canada was covered with the ice sheet. So So we don't have any of those in Canada. Now, if you get up to very northern Canada around the Arctic Circle, that's where you come come into some of those um oriented lakes that often get confused with Carolina bays. Even from people that should know better, like from from academic geologist, which I've had discussions with that uh that should know better that they're not the same thing, but they they you know, up there they have perafrost, they have you know, and that's that's what those oriented lakes are. Um, every year the ground is completely frozen throughout the whole year, permafrost, and during the summer months they thaw out and so you do have ponds and you do have directional winds coming right from the ocean that's right next to it, right? And so they're like, well, they're the same thing. We have them up there. Look at these Carolina bays. Well, there was never never, you know, in the in the last ice age, never um perafrost anywhere near them. So So that right there just crosses that off the list. And you know, like I said, they they'll still argue with you that that that's what they are, but they're not. There's no way. Like I said, I call those pseudo Carolina bays. >> Do these exist anywhere else in the world. >> Uh, no, not not with that. >> This is unique geological formation. >> Mhm. Yeah. As far as I've been able to tell so far, like I said, people come up with like, well, what about these? But I can show them that like no those are ply lakes which is you know where you have uh usually it's in a river valley and and the water the river will flood and as the water's running over it'll it'll cause like water to swirl and create this but they're never even close to being you know the the percent era using the le squares they're never close. >> Does mainstream academia recognize these as something from the impact over Michigan and maybe we're all just arguing over the time timeline when that happened? >> No. Like I said, mainstream academia is totally fine with saying that they are gradual wind and water features. >> Why? >> Yeah, I I don't know. >> Is there any What's the Is there any evidence to back that up that's you think is at least as strong as this? >> I mean, the fact that they all point to Michigan is so interesting. >> It is interesting. Yeah. And and we also have to keep in mind though that when there was a two miles of ice, you know, on top of Michigan, um that they did have something it's called catabatic winds. um that's the air is really cold over a glacier and it comes rushing off the glacier. And so that's the directional winds that they're using. They're using the catabatic winds coming off the Laurentide ice sheet. Um and now again they have to for their their hypothesis to be true. Every Carolina Bay had to have been a pond during that time long enough for it to swirl it into an ellipse. Right. That swirl >> 70,000 ponds. >> Yeah. 70,000 ponds. perfectly swirled into ellipses that all perfectly aim at Michigan. >> That all perfectly aim at Michigan. Yeah. Yeah. >> And they acknowledge that there was this two miles thick of of ice over Michigan. That's that's not that's not in >> contestation. That's Yeah. Yeah. We all we all agree that the ice age produced huge sheet glaciers over over all of uh Canada. I mean the whole >> What's going on? Why what is the who decides what mainstream is in geology? >> I don't know. I I don't know if it's degrees, uh, you know, and and it, you know, it's probably the same with everything too, you know, as you're going through college and you have your professors and I see it right now when I'm having discussions with with with some of these academic scientists, you know, a lot of it is, you know, they learned from their predecessors that were, you know, during the 70s and 80s, they didn't have access to LAR. They didn't have access to any of this. And um you know what do they say that science changes one funeral at a time you know and it's we just got to wait for it to catch up. And I feel like we shouldn't have to do that anymore. You know I feel like we have enough enough evidence now to to support that there could have been something major at least at least acknowledge that it could have happened and then let's let science do the rest. Right. >> It feels like the least scientific thing you could do to not change your mind. >> Yes. Yes. Like the whole point of science is to test hypothesis and then it's it should be celebrated when we disprove things. It should be, hey, we're moving forward, not, hey, I discovered something and I'm going to dig my heels in here. Even when new evidence like LAR and math and LLMs and AI come and help >> clarify some things. >> Yeah. And that's probably what what >> got me going like down this path that I'm taking right now because it's not an easy thing. Like I said, you're you're you're literally walking into a lion's den sometime and be like, you know, I really think you guys need to reexamine a few things and I'll show you why, you know, and nobody wants to be told that they're wrong, you know, and so they're like, >> but they should. Scientists should want to be told they're wrong. >> And that's and that's why I I jumped in was because that's my job. I'm I'm an I am an academic science teacher. Like that's what I do. I'm an educator, you know? I just happen to teach juniors and seniors that have like no interest to be in my classroom. I have to get I have to get really creative sometimes. Um but uh yeah, I don't think that they're following the scientific method. And that's basically what you're saying is that they're not following the scientific method. When new evidence is presented, it should it should cause a reinvestigation at least at the very least. If if it supports, you know, if it if it goes back and supports your old hypothesis, fine. You know, that's what science is. But if it's enough to change the hypothesis, then it needs to change and it needs to progress and push forward. And this this thing has not changed or progressed. I can say at least since 1977, which was the year I was born. So it's going on 48 years, >> that that this has been the dominant academic hypothesis for Carolina Bays. >> Even if you're proven wrong, it doesn't mean you didn't push humanity forward. I mean, we're all standing on the shoulders of the men who came before us and are trying to discover things. And it's okay that Newton invented calculus and we have Newtonian physics and now we have quantum physics. No one looks back and goes, "Ah, Newton, what a what a bozo." You know, he didn't know about quantum. It's like it's actually really helpful and I think that's really >> Yeah. >> It's frustrating from the outside looking in. >> Yeah. And it's odd too because I'm I'm one of the only people in this whole conversation that has changed their mind. Like I said, I did used to think that this was a younger dus event. Uh and I have changed my mind. I now do think that they're older. I my mind might change again. I keep hoping that like Antonio Zamora will present better evidence to to get me back in because the dry is a whole lot more fun. I'll be honest. >> Yeah. >> You know, you know, that's why you guys, we talked about it earlier, you know, during dinner that, you know, we all kind of got brought in because of that story, you know, and the Carolina Bays brings in a lot of people because of that story. You either don't know about him or you do, you know, and if you do know about him, you're all in it. Um, >> well, I think it's a sign of wisdom and a sign of humility to change your mind on something. This sucks. Yeah, >> it sucks. Like, >> it sucks, too. >> When I So, I'll tell you what happened. Um, >> uh, I was having a discussion with Michael Davis about Carolina Bays. Um, and he was telling me about the the um coastal plane, which we're at right now, you know, in in this, you know, in my my um what do we call it again? Bunker. Yeah, that's right. >> Yeah. you know, we're on the coastal plane. We're actually really close to to sea level right here. Um and and Michael was he made a comment that the coastal plane is pool table flat. Like from from the Piedmont all the way down to the beach, it's like pool table flat. And I was like, Michael, it's not pool table flat. I said, you know, we have, you know, you guys actually on your way here went up and down a it's not super noticeable, but you went up and down over ancient barrier islands. We have we have barrier islands here on the coast of Georgia. And and the last time we had a coast here was 125,000 years ago. And we can actually go to that old beach. It's just elevated now. It's about 30 ft higher than than you know everything else around us, you know, and and we actually call them it has a completely different ecology. U we call them sand hills here. got all kind. This is usually where you're going to find most your like diamond back rattlesnakes and your gopher tortoises and uh different plants grow there like the longleaf pine tree. And so it's just a whole different ecology which is you know that's what interests most people. Uh but the geology of it is fascinating too because that's again the barrier island from 125,000 years ago. Um, and that may seem like a long time ago, but that was, you know, that was really the last time the sea level, it was the last interglacial. Like we're in an interglacial now. >> What does that mean? >> Interglacial is uh, well, we have glaciation cycles, which is where we have 2 miles of ice over Canada. It >> builds up, >> right? And then it melts and fills in the oceans. Sea levels rise 400 400 feet, right? um the the beach I should say um during the the peak of the glaciation it was around 20,000 25 thou uh 25,000 years ago. Um the beach would have been 100 miles farther away from here. So you you drove quite a bit today. You know how long 100 miles is. That's that's a long ways, right? It's >> a lot of water. So, so to get to the beach 25,000 years ago, we would have had to got get in a car and drive a 100 miles further east just to get to the beach. And it's like literally like a couple miles from here. Not you can get to it less than a mile from here. And um so 125,000 years ago was the last time sea levels were as high as they are today, right? And they were actually higher than today, which is interesting. You know, we talked a little bit about global warming earlier, but the last time sea levels rose as at least this high. They actually rose higher and there was nobody driving, you know, SUVs or anything like that back then. So, you know what's causing the the alarm today is kind of crazy, but 125,000 years ago was a little bit warmer, seas were a little bit higher, and we have a beach that formed during that time. So anyways, I was I was having this conversation with Michael Davius uh and I was like, "No, Michael, it's not pool table flat. We have these pool tables. Let me show you." And I pulled up his like that's how like arrogant I am, you know? I pulled up his lidar. I was like, "Look, man." And and what I saw actually kind of like hit me. I was like, "Okay, hold on." Because when I pulled up the the lidar to show him these um barrier islands, I noticed that you only find the Carolina bays on top of the barrier islands. Anything that was under that barrier island is gone. There's no Carolina bays. Like so 30 feet about uh eight meters I guess it is. Um there's 10 meters. There's no Carolina bays all the way to the beach. None. They should be if if this if this event happened at during the younger dry at the end of the last ice age. Sea levels hadn't risen all the way up yet. They they had risen up. There was still about 260 ft of of of elevation that hadn't happened yet that has happened since the younger dry. We should find Carolina bays all the way to the beach. All the way to the beach if this event happened 13,000 years ago. And there's none. There are no Carolina bays. The only place that we do find some are in areas with well-known sub subsidance uh subsidance where the ground's actually sinking. Um kind of like Louisiana like it's still it's below sea level. Now >> there's an alternative reason why it's lower. It's because the ground's sinking back. >> Right. Right. Right. So Right. Right. So, the Delm Marva Peninsula, for instance, there are Carolina bays under 30 feet, but you can still see the very well- definfined um uh shoreline that was created then. >> Do we have any Carolina bays that are like half there? Because >> Yes. Yes. I'll show you some pictures. Yeah, I'd love to see those. >> Yeah. So, when I saw that, I was like, "Oh, like literally it was like somebody punched me right in the stomach." I was like, "Oh, man." Because for years, I was on that Young Dry train boy. I was ready to go. And uh like within an instant I was like there's no way there's there should be Carolina bays all the way to the beach because sea levels have not risen above our current shoreline. It's been about it's been steady for around 6,000 years. And uh we should see a whole bunch of evidence between 30 ft and this in the ocean and there's hardly any. There's hardly any. So I that's that's when I was like this they have to be older at least older than the la last interglacial which was 125,000 years ago. The more I look into it I think we see evidence of there being Carolina bays that were eroded um 400,000 years ago. So, that puts it way back into the And here's the thing, too, and a lot of people will will um debate this by saying that there's no way that they could be that old. But those shorelines that we're dating, they're still here. We can still go to the beach that was here 400,000 years ago. We can go up farther and go to the beach that was here over a million years ago. We can go to the beach that was here 200 mill uh 20 million years ago. um you know so we have these different beaches these different they they um I can't remember what they call them right now but they have these different stages these different um levels of shorelines as you go in inland from the beach. So, >> do you are you familiar with Randall Carlson and what he was talking about in the Pacific Northwest with the lands that with all the rushing water over there and do you think that that >> relates in timelines to either the younger dus or does that does that match with this or or do you have an opinion on that? >> Well, I mean again >> or does that relate at all? >> I I don't think it does. And and there's you guys know who Nick Zentner is? He's a geologist out of Washington State. He does a lot of work on on like the the mega floods and things like that, too. And he dates them back to like I think 16,000 years. So, it was it was like predates the younger dry by a little bit. Um I don't I don't want to get too much into that, but okay. >> Um yeah, I don't know. I know that there's mega floods and that's that's cool enough for me. I'm like, "Yeah, cool geology. Let's go." Uh I just I'm not 100% sure that they are exactly younger than age. Um I I could be I could, you know, I could be wrong and he could ask him. You guys going to go talk to them soon? So, >> yeah, we'll we'll check in. >> Well, let's let's go back to the vegetation. You mentioned vegetation. You said that bay trees grow in these Carolina bays. Is that like the bay leaves that we cook with? >> Yeah. So, most most bay leaves that you're talking about are are um like the they're grown in Italy. Like they're Mediterranean, right? Said old grandmas would put bay leaves and spaghetti and stuff like that. We do have a species of bay tree here though that we put in crab oils and things like that. So there are it is a species of of bay tree that that they I'm sure we have some around here that we can grow. >> They don't just grow in the in the Carolina bay. >> No. No. There are some neat there are some neat vegetation that grow only in Carolina bays. I shouldn't say that either because they they just need really good swampy areas and the Carolina bays are really good swampy areas. Uh they're the really cool carnivorous plants like the um >> oh like a Venus fly >> fly trap. We have pitcher plants here um where they have this really neat hood that's like a it's like a flute with a hood over it and it it's usually open and then bugs will crawl in and fall down into the water and then the hood will close on them and they can't get out and then they just decay because they the soil there again it's really crappy swamp soil uh really low in oxygen and really um uh not a lot of good organics and stuff like that in there and so so they get the nutrients that they need by trapping the bugs and and using their their guts. >> Has anyone proposed that these carnivorous plants flew in on a comet? And >> I I've heard I've heard well, you know, um have you guys talked with uh um uh Shandra Wick Ramosing thinga? >> No, not yet. >> Yeah, if you you should you should call. Yeah. Get get an interview with him because he's he loves to talk about it. He actually um did an interview uh with one of my uh honor students. Uh I I als I I teach for an online school as well. I have actually two of them. >> But um one of my honor students I hooked up with Chandra. Oh, really? And uh and he he did like a 45minute interview with him. It was pretty cool. >> I think that's who George Howard says is the smartest person on the planet. >> He Yeah, he is fascinating. And he's so kind. He's like one of the kindest people ever. But that's one of his hypotheses is that uh not not necessarily connecting Carolina bays or anything like that, but that um that viruses uh hitch rides on comets and and there's some evidence that these viruses can alter DNA and and so the ones that come in, they alter DNA over time and and that could be what causes these plants to become uh uh you know to change through evolution. Uh, and that's where the the the spark is that that causes the change. Um, I don't know. I don't know. Like I said, I think that they just are really good swampy plants and the Carolina bays happen to be really good swampy places. So, we find a lot of them there. >> So, there's no vegetation that's like specific to the Carolina bays. What do we find in the find? >> Yeah. So, so again, one of the one of the things that um, you know, the the gradualistic academic hypotheses, again, they all had to have been ponds. Uh, and I think that goes back to like the early 30s because some of the first ones we see had ponds in them. But now that we have LiDAR, we can see Carolina bays everywhere. There's some that they call them ghost Carolina bays. Um, unfortunately, a lot of where we find these are um really prime agricultural land. So again, it's not like they're all swampy areas. Uh they they'll be plowed up and they'll be used as um as farms. In fact, uh, uh, George Howard, Antonio Zamora, and Michael Davius and I all met up at a Carolina Bay back in 2017, maybe 2019. >> Um, it was actually one that was part of his um that he was working with uh doing the uh reclamation, the um the >> Yeah. swamp restoration, >> ecosystem restoration. >> Yeah. um and before they went in to turn it back into a swamp because the guy had been using it as a as a corn pasture, corn field and he got into turkeys or something instead and and so he had this big Carolina bay and George's like, "Well, we'll buy it and we'll we'll we'll turn it into back into a swamp, you know, and that's they actually had to go back in and do that." But before they did that, we we spent a whole bunch of time digging into it and and grabbing a bunch of dirt out of it and and sifting through it. We're trying to find younger dries. Um, >> what does that look like to do an excavation or like a what's it called? Dig. >> Yeah, I can't really say because like we did it >> um very quick >> unofficially. >> Yeah, it was, you know, going back we were just trying to get It was it's like gorilla science, you know, like like we went in there, he he brought in a backhoe, one of his one of his operators just like we dug these huge trenches and then anywhere we saw like a difference in >> in um in color, we started scooping out dirt and then I sifted through all that and we didn't really find anything. We I have we dug three huge trenches and uh we sent in the the the soil from the first trench and it didn't come back with anything conclusive. So, we I have two more whole samples, two more trenches full of samples in a box just waiting to be tested if if we ever get the, you know, the the money to do it. It's expensive. It's like really expensive to to um have them tested. So, >> what does it cost? >> Um it was a couple grand. It's more than I'm willing to pay. Uh and I know George kind of fronted the bill for the first time and since it didn't come back with anything, he was like, "Yeah, I think we're done with that." And we and we did try to get some funding from uh the comet research group and they were like, "Yeah, if you found a little bit better evidence the first go around because we're really interested to see what we find from the center trench because we actually dug from a northern part of the rim. We dug right in the middle of it and then we went to the uh to the south southern trench." Um >> so you basically dig down and and you it create it you dig straight down and you see layers hopefully >> strategraphy. you you're supposed to see really good strategraphy and we did not see really good strategraphy. It was all mashed up. It was all gross, you know, and it was very hard to find good sample layers and things like that. Most of the evidence that they're getting from Carolina bays are from the rims. They'll actually go in. So, so remember we were talking about how the hack was to use cloveites. Well, there are quite a few clover sites in the rims of Carolina bays because the you know during the the Native American occupation that was like a perfect place to go hunting was in a low swampy area and uh they would actually camp out on these rims. They would go hunting into these Carolina bays and um they even found um they found the gizzard stones uh from like ducks and and turkeys and things like that. um they they were confused because they kept finding these little pebbles uh in there, you know, as they're going through looking for flint pieces and, you know, for for making um flakes and stuff like that, making uh the Clovis points. Um and they kept finding these little pebbles and they came, they're like, "What are these?" And they were throwing them out. And somebody was like, "Wait, wait, wait. Those are they're actually gizzard stones. They're actually from inside Waterfall. This is part of the processing of of Waterfell." Which is interesting, too. Again, when we start looking at timelines, that's evidence of a culture living on the rim of a Carolina bay and using it during a time when we, you know, one of the hypotheses says that they were formed. Uh, and so, you know, I at the time I was like, well, you know, they could have been here and it happened. I was like, I'm not so sure now. Now that I found some some other evidence, I didn't get into what kind of changed my mind. I did it was the uh, you know, not finding any any evidence below it, right? Um and and so again that pushes it back much farther for me into the mid ply scene. So, um, that's >> Yeah, cuz I expected you to say you the Clovis sites were a good place to look because if people were living on land, then that land was exposed. Therefore, >> and that's what that's what the Younger Dryus is doing. The the Comet Research Group is doing to kind of prove that it was a young drying because they're actually finding I think they went to Murray Springs. There's a uh there's a mammoth um kill site there and uh they, you know, again, it was a cloverite that's been well dated to being 13,000 years. Uh, and they went and they went to the site. They have a blackmat layer. Now, now this is not a burn layer. A lot of people get confused. They think that the the younger dry black mat is a burned layer. That's not true. It's actually like a really danky like like algaal layer. like it during the young dry it got really cold and the everything was wet and gross and you know there wasn't a lot of sunlight and it was just really dank and so so it created this like black noticeably black layer in the strategraphy and um they actually find that's where just under that black mat is where they find a lot of their best proxy they find their the platinum and then the micro diamonds and things like that the carbon sparials and and um >> so all the meteoritic detritis is just below >> just below that and that's and and they found that the black mat actually kind of carpeted over this kill site. So they're thinking, you know, that this whole process was like this was a an active kill site whenever whatever happened at the younger dryest and it just blanketed this whole thing and that's where they're finding their best stuff is is right there underneath that black mat layer and they don't find any evidence of Clovis culture or most of the mega mammals above the black mat, right? Everything's under it. Nothing's above it. And that's that's really kind of telling that something major happened uh during the younger dry. Right now they're they're really thinking that this was a huge bolite event. Um that >> what's that? >> It's a bolite is when it's when a uh like a meteorite blows up in the atmosphere before it like before it hits the ground. Um the last time this happened we not the last time actually every shooting star is a miniature bully. Um but the last major event was um in Russia uh in Chelabinks in 2012 I think it was. Uh, and there was a a meteor about the size of a school bus that came in and it blew up over Belly Banks, Russia. And the shock wave of that explosion, shattered glass, and injured, I think, 1,700 people. And the the the actual meteor did make it all the way in. It landed into a lake. And uh, they were actually able to recover this like, you know, Volkswagen sized chunk of of this this bolide. Yeah, it's pretty neat. >> I don't understand why meteors blow up in the air. >> I think it's just the heat. Yeah, the heat and the the really quick change in density just like if you have something like really hot um you know in a microwave and you put it into a cold sink, it just shatters. So, it's coming through. You got to keep in mind when it's out in space, it's you know frigid and then it hits our atmosphere and it gets super hot. the the thermosphere it I think it can get to be like 2,000 degrees and then as it goes from the thermos that's when we see shooting stars streak across the sky and then instantly they go into the messosphere where it's like -200 and it just shatters they just completely so most of them blow up in the meosphere as they're they're approaching the earth and uh and just it's the big ones that either the really big ones that make it all the way through or the ones that come more directionally like straight through the atmosphere real They they they hit pretty good. >> There's a layer of the atmosphere that's 2,000 degrees Fahrenheit. >> Well, the thermosphere is like the very outer edge. It's like the it's like the friction of the atmosphere is actually Yeah, it's like super hot. >> Oh, I didn't know that. I always picture just getting colder as I go higher. >> Well, it's it's really there's like an inversion, too, as you go through. Like I think it starts to cool off and then it warms back up and then it cools off really cold in the meosphere and then thermosphere gets really hot. So yeah, when these when these, you know, meteors come in, they usually get superheated. We see them, we see that streak and then they get really cold and most of them shatter. They come through and that's there's actually a guy I can't remember his name, but they're finding um after a big um you know, a fireball is like a big shooting star. uh they're going out and they're I think it's the Stardust project or something, but they're going on top of roofs and they're sweeping the roofs and and then they're um they're pretty much using the same process that the Kama research group uses to to find their proxy, but they're finding all the same the platinums and all that kind of stuff from from shooting stars and fireballs and small bolts. So what they're thinking is that 13,000 years ago, we went through a very dense portion of the torren meteor stream and you know instead of having like one shooting star streak across the sky and everybody's like oo let's wish upon the star there was a whole bunch of them and they were big ones and they were blowing up and and you know causing a lot of as Randall says a lot of havoc and uh and and it was big it was a big deal whatever happened at the and again I don't want to take away just because I don't think that the Carolina Bays and the younger Dus are not part of the same story. Um I I don't want to take away from the younger Dus because that was a big event. I mean it was a huge event. Um I just don't think that they're related. I think that that this older event where we find the a tectites and we find the um we find the uh the all the other proxy that's going on there. I haven't even talked about the other stuff that we have a huge bottleneck of of homo sapien DNA. This is actually prehomoc sapien DNA. This would have been like the um what's the uh what's the species that we came from? I should know this. >> Oh yeah, the magna or >> I can't remember. >> I can't remember. >> It was actually it's actually where homo sapiens and and the neanderthol split from a common ancestor. >> Okay. >> That happened at the mid plyosene. >> Was that the cro-Magnum example they found? >> Yeah, that's not what I'm thinking of, but I think I was thinking of like Lucy or something. But >> yeah. Yeah, >> but I think that was dates back somewhere around there. Anyways, this is where we see a huge split in DNA from the Homo sapiens and Neanderthalss. >> And this is how long ago? How many years ago? >> This is around 800,000 years ago. >> 800,000 years ago. >> Right. Right. Um which is again when these Actites were formed and um there's other evidence uh that supports that as well. So I I just like I said I don't want to take away from the younger drias but I think there was a much bigger event that happened 786,000 years ago that formed the attem the Carolina base at the same time now and and again I think the shorelines of the east coast support that as as evidence. So, um, >> well, I can see why it's less sexy to say that because I think the reason most people like the younger dus idea is because when Plato wrote Yeah. >> about the Atlantis Empire ending 12,000 years ago, people like to say, "Oh, okay. Now we see the younger Dus impact >> and that probably killed the Atlanteanss and so it ties up all sorts of mysteries that we all wonder about on YouTube." >> Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. That's that's absolutely true. You know, and so, you know, it's it's a lot of fun. >> Yeah. It's a lot of fun. >> That's right. But you're forming a new narrative now. You're saying that there was there's something to look at closer to 800,000. >> 800,000 years ago. Yeah. There was a huge benthic organism, benthic forminifera extinction that happened at that time. Uh which is a big deal. These benthic organism benthic forminifer like microscopic um uh organisms that live on the bottom of the ocean. I mean, how bad does it have to be for like those suckers to die? Like those things like survive anything? And there's a huge ex like mass extinction event of those at the same time. And and again, we're just now figuring out what happened. We haven't figured it out. We're still like debating and and trying to come up with better evidence of what happened 13,000 years ago. As you said, you know, during the time where we were wellestablished, you know, um and I say that, but you know, our own history is so jacked up. like we like we literally say that uh and I and I I feel bad because I this is part of like what I teach when we're talking about I used to I don't anymore. Um it's a pretty interesting topic in my classroom by the way. >> Yeah. When we talk about the agricultural revolution, you know, that we came out of the ice age, we're all hunters and gatherers and then it's like 12,000 years ago or 10,000 years ago, we were like, "Oh, wait, guys. We can grow seeds around our huts and we can start, you know, you know, raising goats and pigs and stuff around us." And then, you know, we start agriculture and all of a sudden we become civilized and um, you know, and then now we have the industrial revolution going on and it's there's so much history before that. >> Yeah. that we don't know. And and it's part of this story, too, because like I said, you know, just 20,000 years ago, sea levels were 100 miles away. And that's where we're going to find our stuff. That's where we're going to find, you know, 400 feet in the ocean, which I mean, even scuba diving, like you can only safely go down around 100 feet, >> right? >> Uh and that's dangerous, right? Like, you know, that can kill you going down 100 feet. >> Totally. >> And and we're talking about 300 feet below that 400t from the surface down. That's where this ocean was at the peak of the last ice age. And humans were here. We we've been around in our current form for at least what three 400,000 years. Um, you know, and and like I said, I'm I think something major happened. >> Yeah. Before that, you're saying well before that. >> So, and and that's where we're going to find the evidence of of our lost cultures. And I don't want to say like advanced civilizations, but there were people and and I think we were doing well, you know, multiple times and and just the evidence is it's under the oceans. It's it's down there. >> What do you think about Gobeckley and how that was discovered over uh in Turkey, right? And then it it dates back to 12 and a half and a half 13,000 years. >> I mean I >> I mean it seems to push back the whole hunter gatherer. >> Yeah. Well, I and I think what they're finding now is like they were mostly still eating, you know, protein from from animals and stuff like that. So, um I think they were just saying, you know, saying that they they narrative is that they didn't have time to do that kind of stuff, right? Like they were always hunting hunting and gathering. They're like they were probably doing pretty darn well if they're doing this, you know, and hunting and gathering. Um I can imagine if we had uh you know, mammoths to snack on all the time, you know. >> Yeah. Yeah. It shows division of labor. Yeah. It shows that we had enough resources and time to build major temples >> and then also have enough food. And so that that just denotes at least some sort of >> specialization >> specialization in in uh >> in society. It shows a civil society much more so than just handtomouth hunter gathering. >> And there's so much there too that we haven't even started looking at. There's I think it's like 10% has been dug. >> Yeah. >> There's like so much more. There's so much to learn there. Oh my god. >> And they won't allow it. Right. The Turkish government's crazy >> saying no. >> Well, so this is really interesting that you you might be sort of suggesting that we dislodge the Carolina base from the younger dus impact or from the younger dest period because it's no longer an impact necessarily. >> Right. Right. And again, I don't want to take away from the younger dries. Like I said, I just want to to make it, >> you know, known that I that that I don't think they're part of the same event. I think >> you think they both happened. >> I think they both happened. Yeah. and and by separating the two because I think what's happening is at least you know me coming at it from a Carolina Bay perspective um there's there's a lot of the Comet Research Group members um directly Comet Research Group researchers uh that are very adamant that the Carolina Bays are not part of that story and then they're kind of ugly about it like they have gotten really kind of rude about the Carolina Bays being brought up and every time and and I I understand that now you know like I said I'm like I agree agree with you. I I don't think they're part of the same event, but I still think they were impacts. I think they were still, you know, the result of an impact. We're just looking at two different things and they just don't want any part of Carolina Bays. And so they're they're totally fine with saying, "Oh, it's wind and water. Just shut up, boy. Go away." You know, this is >> they're all pointing at Michigan splatter the splatter. >> Right. Right. And again, I think the ellipticity of them is the the the key because >> even in like Florida, even in Florida, >> uh where we have sink holes, you know, if you have two perfectly circular sink holes side by side, that would be really cool. Like they name them like like twin lakes and all kinds of stuff, you know, there it's a really neat thing. And these Carolina bays, there's just so many of them that are identically shaped. And as you said, not only are they I mean, that's like strike one. Strike two is that they are all point they're all identically shaped, they're all pointed to the same location. And and I think strike three is when you get to that location, it's literally a ringed bullseye of where they all hit. Um, you want to look at some pictures? Yeah, let's take a look at some pictures. >> Um, I'll I'll kind of like just kind of go through this presentation really quick. Like I said, I put this presentation together just so that you guys had some something to look at. Um, >> Oh, yeah. And the LAR is so cool. >> Yeah, it is cool. I mean, just look at that. Um, yeah. So, you know, I mentioned before, you know, as a science educator, uh, you know, this I'm not seeing the scientific method being followed with this whole thing. And that's kind of what brought me into this. And that's what this slide is all about. You know, that we're all really, if you do the scientific method, you're a scientist. Uh, and a lot of the people that are researchers in the Carolina bays may not be a geologist. So, they name I I I think I'm like one of the only ones that actually has credentials in in geoccience uh to talk about this kind of stuff. But um but yeah, following that scientific method, I think is really important. >> Um >> it's so strange that it's like a fringe mystery in geology. >> It is. >> It's it's just when you think of geology, you just I just think of people who dig in dirt and figure stuff out and it's like, oh, and they write the history books. I don't think of there being these, >> you know, and I think why is because a lot of geologists, that's what they're doing. They're digging in dirt, right? You know, you got your tel and you got your, you know, your buckets and stuff like that, but you really need to have an overview of the whole thing. you need to step back and you need to have like a a generalist view of of different things climatology and that's actually what my degree was in my master's degree was in geocience so I took classes master's level classes in in oceanography and climatology and and you know geology uh meteorology all that stuff together and it all ties into these stories that we're talking about right it's all part of this younger dus event the the the mid plyosene transition event the Carolina bays you need to have a little bit of everything. Uh but you get they you get so the the researchers get so f funneled and focused on one thing or another uh they don't see the big picture. Um but here here's a p this is what the the first picture and again it's a mosaic of hundreds of of pictures taken from airplanes back in the 1930s. >> And how deep are those? A couple feet. >> Yeah, they're not the rims are maybe I mean it's it's maybe three feet. >> Okay. >> Like three three feet. Um, some of them some of them get bigger, you know, but the they're super flat in the middle. We'll look at some of these. Uh, again, we're looking at a difference between terrestrial and and uh and catastro catastrophism um as far as explanations. Uh, and we know that's the thing too is like we know that things happen suddenly, you know. >> Yeah. Why are geologists It sounds like you're saying that generally they try to go with uniformitarianism >> and this goes by rare exception they go to catastrophism. Why? Why is why is that the case? >> I I I really think it goes back to like over the past couple hundred years with Darwin and all that stuff because remember Darwin actually started wasn't he a geologist first? He did a lot of geology stuff first uh before he started getting into the biology. Um but yeah, you know, and the >> so it's almost like Darwinism is this I it's a gradual process. >> You know, there's there's been a debate back and forth between like Darwinism and >> Christian. Yeah. Right. Right. The Christian has the six days instant formation and that's almost like catastrophism, >> right? Right. >> Yeah. Yeah. And the and the and the flood and all that kind of stuff, right? It's all it's always like catastrophism. >> Uh and so for a long time, for hundreds of years, >> you know, the the the uniformitarianism model, which is is a geological law. Uniformitarianism is a geologic principle. Like things happen very slowly over millions of years. One gust of wind and one grain of sand at a time. And that's how geology changes. That's that's a principle of geology. Uh there are other principles of geology too, you know, that are, you know, things like um the the law of lateral continuity and the you know, the uh the law of horiz horizontal um I can't remember it now, but um you know, we have these principles that are how geologists are supposed to to study geology. Um and I really have a problem with uniformitarianism because we know that things happen really quickly sometimes. It's rid It's ridiculous that it's it's so obvious it's both. Yeah, >> it's so obvious that it things happen slowly and then comets come in and hit something and smash or volcano go like >> Yeah. Sounds like it just doesn't account for the torid meteor stream like unifor one or the other. It's so obviously both. >> I agree. >> And I've heard the term punctuated uniformitarianism because we also know like you said it's both. Uh, I think that's actually a good term though that that we do have the slow processes of geology that that happen over long periods of time. Well, you're right. We need to acknowledge that that sometimes the earth gets punched in the mouth. >> Yeah. >> And and it may happen more often than we want to admit and we need to to be keeping our eyes open for that kind of stuff. And that's that's what this is all about really, right? >> Um, you know, looking at the past to predict the future and to to prepare for anything that might that might happen. Um, these are all just a list of things that have in the past been hypothesized. So, this is, like you said, it's a debate that's been going on since the 1930s. >> Okay. >> Um, you know, you go back into papers and look at the bibliographies and it's just back and forth, back and forth, back and forth. Actually, in the paper that I just published, we have a um, uh, uh, bibl um, uh, I can't remember what it's called. It's like a graph that just kind of shows the different papers of just going back and forth, back and forth. >> Um, >> I love number 12. >> Billy Arvey, what's that? I I love number 12 and 13. >> Yeah, actually the giant beaver ponds is kind of a neat idea. Um, and the guy who came up with this, he's actually still he's still with us and uh he's from the University of Georgia. Uh, and I think George may have talked about him with on your show, but he used to be a li the UG librarian and he had extra time. He's like, "Caroline bays are cool." >> Yeah. Yeah, I remember George saying that. >> Yeah. So, um, what he thinks happened was that these these beaver ponds, uh, you know, you got this big pond of water >> and these are big beavers. >> Yeah. But he's actually like a catastrophist. He actually thinks that the um the event that happened at the younger Das was so hot that it introduced so much energy that it flash these beaver ponds. And that's what Carolina bays are is the flash boiling of these beaver ponds. So, it's kind of a neat hypothesis when you start looking into it. Um but still, you know, I don't I think that that's a little far-fetched. >> Yeah. Well, it does seem strange that they're flat in the middle. That to me is just >> It does. Very strange. >> Yeah. >> And that's where, you know, that the ID mentioned earlier that the the guy who's been contacting me about the um the uh air burst, you know, introducing an air burst hypothesis. He's like, that's the only way that that could really happen. He said if if if the earth was getting punched by huge chunks of ice that we would have different shapes like it would not make a perfect ellipse that it's the actual the the and and I I can see some value in that and so I'm like well we'll talk dude let's get >> yeah that does kind of make sense. >> Yeah. Yeah. >> Um so any so again the importance of LAR really important. Um this is actually in the Myrtle Beach area. This is the same location. This is this is uh the first picture back in the 30s. Um that's what we have today. using Google Earth, which is a huge advancement in technology to be honest. >> Yep. >> Uh which is fairly recent. We've only had it for what about >> decade or so? >> Decade and a half maybe. >> Yeah. >> Um and now, like I said, Michael Davis has been able to introduce you uh USGS LAR maps um all the way down to like uh it's like half a meter elevations and things, you know, and he has them colorcoded, too. >> So, these were satellite, I guess, of the whole Earth. >> Uh they actually LAR comes from airplanes. They actually mount a LAR sensor underneath an airplane. >> Oh, you have a picture. >> It shoots it shoots lasers down. It bounces back up and uh it's it's like radar but with the lasers and so they can they can map. But what's really cool about is lasers go through the leaves of plants and and things like that. So it literally is picking up the ground and and so you can remove all of all of the um you know surface distraction really. Uh so here's an image of uh Tatum, South Carolina. Um you guys, you didn't drive through this today, but uh it was probably not You probably pass thousands of Carolina bays coming down from from uh North Carolina for sure. >> Yeah. >> Once you hit 95, you're passing a bunch of them. You go past uh the south of the border. >> Oh yeah. >> Yeah. There's like a dozen of them right there. Right. As you're driving right through that little area. Yeah. >> But you can't see them from the ground, right? They're too >> They're very difficult to see. I can like I've been looking at them so long I'm looking I'm like my it drives my wife nuts >> going Carolina Bay H but uh but yeah again and a lot of these are are so big that you may only see the rim like part of the rim as you drive up and then back down you're going over a rim and then you do it again and um it's pretty uh pretty neat. But so this this is a a really neat picture because you can see all the farms, you can see the highways. Um, you know, there's actually a town up here. That's Tatum right there. But that LAR really picks up those Carolina bays in this area. And so we have all of these elliptical shaped depressions. Not only are they elliptical shaped, not only did they have the orientation, but they also overlap in some places. >> Oh, yeah. >> Um, where you know how if this is wind and water again, how could all of these have been ponds long enough long enough for the waters to swirl around to make perfect ellipses? It's just it's a ridiculous hypothesis to be honest. >> That's that's my take on it. >> You know that >> it does look like ridiculous >> splashing water at the beach and it just splatters on the sand. >> That's actually like one of my final slides on this presentation is >> it's totally what it looks like >> a picture from the beach where I kicked water. They're all perfectly I I might have to fast forward to show you. >> Yeah. Yeah. We can jump around. >> How many of these like tiny little circles are Carolina bays, too? Cuz some of them look way smaller, but >> Yeah, there's a whole bunch of them that are like like look at all these up here. 50 or 60 in this photo. >> Yeah, there's a whole bunch of them. You got some big ones here, and they kind of distract you from all of these little ones that are all all over the place, too. They're all the exact same shape. We can use methods to to prove that they're identical in shape. The the orientation for these are all identical. Um there are some variations. There are some that are a little bit off, a little bit, but you would expect that if it was something that happens, you know, catastrophically really, really fast. >> And the color coding shows us depth, right? as as far as elevation. So all those blue ones on the left are all the exact same sort of height above sea level and the red ones in the middle are all at a different height. >> Yeah. Yeah. He uses Michael Davis uses a 10 m color color palette. >> And so if we'll see some examples in a minute. I'll explain it now. But um there's some where blue is the ocean. Like it starts at the ocean. Okay. >> And then you'll go up and some places it'll go back down and then it'll go back up. So, you got to be careful sometimes and understand the the terrain of the area that you're looking at >> to understand if you're going up or down, which confuses a lot of people. A lot of people see these colors and it distracts them and they're a little I I can't look at these without them. Otherwise, it's just all gray. It's all grayscale. >> Yep. >> It sucks. >> Yeah. Way harder. >> It's still neat. You can still see the Carolina Bays. Um but this is all all um it's color coded and like you said, the elevation. So, that whole rim, >> you know, is pretty much all the same elevation. And you could see really see how flat it is on the inside because there's no change in elevation in color. >> Yeah. >> And that really helps detect that. You can actually see right here where this person um had I think they dug this out to make >> a farm or something. >> A farm there, right? You can see it like if I go back. Well, I guess you can't really see it very well there, but that's I mean again that's what it looks like and then you you see all those elliptical shad and you won't see if you were driving through this area, >> you were driving on this highway right here, you wouldn't notice any of it. >> That's right. Yeah, I can see why you keep touting the LAR so much. It really changes the game when you're looking at this in seeing things from above, >> right? And we got a we got a lot, you know. So, this is Nebraska. Again, I wanted to make no make it very clear that we're talking about more than likely an impact event taking place. But here's Nebraska. Um, and super flat all the way through this area. It's all farmland. Um, but again, when you flip over that that lidar, you start seeing all these >> and they're pointing from the lower left to the upper right to the northeast. Yeah. And the other one was South Carolina. So, it's the lower right to the the south east to the northwest, right? >> So, they're all pointing to Michigan. >> Yep. Yep. So, here this is a picture. I use this picture a lot because it kind of it tells the whole story. >> U, but here's our Carolina bays. Again, this is from another spot, too. It's not like I'm picking the same spot. You can go anywhere and find these. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. And so these are all pointing here. This is a picture showing um you know pretty much the whole eastern part of the the US like from the Rockies over. Uh and you can see all of these dots. This is actually an old picture because we've actually found some inside of this band right here in places like um in Kansas and and uh there's some in like the very north eastern part of Texas. >> Oh, so you're almost getting the whole circumference. >> You're almost getting the whole thing. Yeah. Yeah. There's a there's not very many of them and and a lot of it has to do with erosion and ground type. >> Um but if you know what you're looking for and you have access to that ladder, I mean >> I can't tell you how many hours I've scanned like ladder and be like, "Wait, wait, wait, wait, found one." You know, >> you can almost have machine learning start to find it. If you could draw that circumference, you can almost throw them in and let an LLM >> I think. Yeah, I think that's I don't know. I I told you guys earlier during dinner that I've been talking with a guy who wants to like get this thing going with some with some uh >> um some chat GPT or something like that and really kind of spit something out. I I don't like I said right now we literally have to manually go in and place I'll I'll show you a picture in a minute, but we have to place points just on the inside of the rim >> to put it through the program to see that or to prove that it's an ellipse and and that's really tedious. Like I do like five or six of them like okay I'm done with this right now because it's so tedious. Well, it even know, you know, since it's all pointing at Michigan, it would just look all the way around that circle for everything with the different ovals pointing upwards Michigan. >> Yeah, it's around 1500 kilometers from from Michigan right here. And and again, so we've got this is this is remember earlier I was talking about the bedrock geology of Michigan itself. >> You know, this is the mitten of Michigan. This is where all of these things point. >> Uh that's the Michigan basin. >> It caught it caught a baseball. >> It's almost just like a mitt like >> Oh my god. Yeah. >> Splattered all over the place. >> What a cosmic joke. >> And but the problem here, the problem is like if you ask a Michigan geologist, >> they will they they will get so upset about this. >> Really, >> they really do. They really do. >> It's a real >> They don't want to catch any flag. >> It's a real catcher. >> Why do they get mad about it? I don't understand. because again it it invokes catastrophism and they're like no that's not how this formed and and you know we were talking about geological principles a minute ago um the uh the uh the law of horizontality basically states that that strata forms flat layers like if you go to the to um you go to the Grand Canyon you know you see the lines you see the strategraphy and it's all flat layers all the way across >> um and all of a sudden when they start talking about the Michigan basin And now they say that, oh well, here it formed bowl shapes and so we have these bowls that formed and that's why we get what we find. And I'm like, no, that's not how geology works. You can't you can't say that. That's not part of like it's not one of the it goes against the principles of geology to say that. But a Michigan geologist will be like, "No, no, no, no. That's that's how it formed." >> Yeah. What about meteor impacts? What about the >> Yeah. Literally, we have like a bunch of third graders, all of these Carolina bays, and all of these uh Nebraskan rainwater bases. They're all pointing right to the catcher. >> Oh, a thousand 1500 kilometers. What a splash. >> Yeah. Oh, and then and then the other thing, too, and this is actually a paper that came out not too long ago. Um, their conclusion was off a little bit, I think, but um this is showing a gravitational anomaly um that's on par with the cheeks upgrad. It's like it's literally a gravitational anomaly that something happened there and it matches what what happened over the the Chiku love impact the the >> in the Yucatan. >> The UK Yeah. In the Yucatan. >> Um >> but it's but it's it happened really slowly. >> Yeah. Yeah. Right. >> Yeah. >> Because it just that's how things happen. >> Yeah. And then they were actually they were they were invoking an impact here and that's what that why they use this image in their in their paper. >> That's amazing. >> Yeah, it is. So, I do think that obviously by looking at the evidence that that is here, you know, that there was something big that happened over over this. >> What could possib What else could it be? Everything's pointing in Michigan. >> This is crazy. There's like 75,000 of these. Is that that's what you said about 75,000 >> around 70 I think around 70,000. >> 70,000. >> Yeah. That that have been >> And they're all pointing in >> Yeah. Yeah. And and again, if you go back to some of these pictures, I mean, >> you know, some of these haven't been marked, right? So 70,000 of have been actually like labeled and marked and they they all they're like a part of the survey and so you can go in you can download the survey and and uh the the azimuth is on there the location exact location Latin lungs and all that kind of stuff. Um but there's a whole bunch of smaller ones that are like I bet that one's not on there you know there's a whole bunch of them that are >> that are not not in there. >> Um so yeah I I definitely think that there was a major impact there. Why aren't there any in like Indiana or just south of Michigan or Illinois? >> Because a lot of those places were covered in glacial ice. >> Oh, at the peak of the last >> flew just past the glacial perimeter. >> It depends on when it happened. Right. >> Right. >> So, so if it happened during when I think it did, there could have been some there. There could have been some there. >> Oh, but then they got a >> Yeah, glaciers when they grow they it's like a giant bulldozer and it just kind of like scour the ground. 786,000 years ago. That was seven or eight ice ages ago. So the glac would have reformed and kind of smoothed out >> seven or eight times. Yeah. >> Where's your evidence? You know, where's where's the crater? >> But so the glacier never reached all the next glacier periods in time never reached down to North Car to the Carolina base. >> The last the last glacial cycle was one of the most severe. There's a couple loes I think that may date back older. Um but but the last one was a really big cold ice age and we had a really long you know the the terminal marine the the last push of the glacier uh which actually in some places during the younger dryest it pushed down even more like it was melting back and then they reformed and pushed down even more. Um, but yeah, that everything like in Canada and and and Nebraska, not Nebraska, but um uh like North Dakota, you know, all those up northern states, you know, they were they were buried in glacial ice during the last ice age. Um, and so you're not going to find any >> because it got plowed over. >> Yeah. Yeah. >> Okay. >> Yeah. And there are there are some like oriented lakes that are in some of those locations. Um, but they're formed from they're I my presentation last year at the cosmic summit was was uh pseudo Carolina bays, you know, and then I I focus on some of those like proglacial lakes like right at the edge of the glacier, water pulls up and they form some really interesting elliptical or or uh ovoid shapes. Um, but when you do your, you know, do actually your method of trying to prove electricity, they they don't they fail. So again, um, Antonio Zamore and I actually got, we don't agree on time. We don't agree on anything. And what I really like about this is even though we don't agree, like we argue about timing all the time. And anytime he says he he he just put out a video yesterday all about the younger Dus, and I'm like, I have not gotten anywhere with this guy. But um, but still we still we we uh spent about eight months working together, really close. And uh we we came up with the paper knowing that we disagreed on the timeline, but we agree that there was a major impact into the into you know the the ice sheet and uh that's what we focus the paper on. And like I said it was very tedious of going through and marking these and and uh you know just we had a we had we I think we published a dozen of them but we have a database of way more than that. Oh yeah. There's some >> machine learning is great for stuff like this. >> Yeah. There's got to be a way to do this. >> Automated. Yeah. >> Yeah. >> Yeah. Maybe we can help you figure that out. I don't know if it sounds like you already have a software guy on it, but >> if you guys have an idea, let me know. Like I said, there's I get a lot of, you know, people that want to help and then it fizzles. >> Yeah. No help. >> Yeah. I got to know exactly what I'm trying to solve, right? >> If I get a picture and it's like label these ovals, maybe I figure it out. Yeah. >> Yeah. Yeah. But that's basically what we're saying is like a conic section is an ellipse. like like one of the conic sections is an ellipse. There's the circle. If it goes straight down, right, you've got a the parabola is a conic section, but one of them is an ellipse. And so that's kind of the basis of that paper was was that um you know, a an ellipse could be a conic section and that could be from something entering you know, even if it's the energy of something entering uh the ground that we would end up with these perfectly shaped ellipses. And that's that's what we published. And like I said, it was actually a pretty big deal. It was, you know, congrats on getting published >> there. And and two guys that don't agree, >> you know, to get together and that's what we need to see more of, man. We need to see more researchers putting putting aside their differences. Let's focus on the stuff that we do agree then. And and then, you know, if it sues you one way or the other, great. If it doesn't, okay, well, you know, we we tried and and uh we still have something that's added to the scientific uh community. So, >> it seems like you could also just say it could be both. like why couldn't in a I mean you know I don't know much about papers but it seems like you could just say what we think is this or this it's inconclusive but both are plausible right you know in a way that's that's okay >> and that's kind of what we did so so we focus on the physics because we think that's pretty solid >> right or at least it's testable and that's that's the point of science is if you disagree with me fine >> show me write a write a you know >> follow it up you know write another paper because that's the thing like like there's been nothing published there's been a couple papers here and Um, and they're usually just reiterating what was done back in the 70s and 80s. Um, there's been no new science on Carolina Bays for I don't know how long. And so I was, okay, let's do this. Let's let's write a paper. And uh, and so so having something peer- reviewviewed in a journal is is a big deal to us. And and uh, I I hope it gets a lot of attention. And I hope that it sparks other research. Like my my goal is to have college grad students pick this up and run with it so I can go back to fishing and >> I mean you guys you're in my bunker down here. You know I love camping and hunting and I would love to get back into that more. >> Yeah, definitely. >> Instead of instead of staring at stupid ellipses on on >> LAR, >> colorized LAR. But I I can see why you can't get away from it because there is just this splatter pattern across the country basically that is like it's telling some story. But what is it? >> Yeah. >> It's very strange. >> Yep. So again, so in my opinion again, you know, we're really looking at when did it happen because that's a whole another debate. It's a whole another discussion. You know, if if you do agree then then when did it happen? You know, younger dry or mid plyosine, right? >> Um and that's that was what we talked about. Um, we briefly talked about it like at my discussion this this summer at the cosmic summit. Um, Tony handled the physics. I'm I'm fine with him doing that because I would I would screw it up somehow anyways. Um, and then I talked about the timeline and again he knows that I disagree with him and uh and and I can present his evidence well. You know, I understand where he's coming from because I was in it too uh for a long time. you know, because we have 1200 uh 1,200 night 12,900 years ago, you know, we had some some things happen, right? You know, we've got the black mat layer that's there. You know, that so there's a cosmic event. Um the platinum that they find shock fractures shock fractured quartz is a new addition over the past couple years. >> Cool. >> Um that was always there's a we call them the the shocked quartz mafia. Uh it's a group of geologists that are like if if you don't find shocked quartz, there was not an impact. Get out of my face. And they're like really rude about it. >> It's like where's you you don't have any shock words? >> They sound like they're awesome parties. >> Oh, they're off. There's actually a there's a there's a discussion where um >> Rand Carson got heckled off off stage at at a at a a discussion up in up in uh Atlanta at the Yeah. Yeah. from one of these guys, one of the shot courts mafia guys that was coming at him like you don't know what you're talking about. and you know literally like distracted uh distracted his entire discussion that night. Yeah, his conversation. Yeah, it was it was pretty bad. >> Um >> who are these guys? Reach out to Austin and Matt. We want to talk to you. We need to talk to somebody in the shot.comshocks mafia. Leave us a note. >> So again, 12,900 years ago, we have a 10% biomass uh burn. Uh so there is some burning involved. It's not necessarily part of the black mat. Um, one of the one of the speakers at the cosmic summit this year, uh, Joanne Harris, Dr. Joanne Harris, um, she talked about this because they did a lot of lake cores and find burned, uh, evidence in lake cores that date back to the younger dry. So, there is an event, you know, there is a burn layer uh, in ponds there. >> So, the black mat is sometimes burned. >> It's like I said, we they they found like at least a 10% biomass burn. >> Okay. Um but >> cuz I heard there was a lot of fires in in the whatever that impact was. >> But the black mat where they're finding all this proxy evidence was mostly uh like that alol. >> Yeah. >> Um a Y chromosome bottleneck. Um we do see that there was which also you guys were earlier were talking about um you know some of the stories that come out of the younger dus uh you know with the the the um uh Atlantis and one I find really interesting is the Amazonians like the the women tribes of of the Amazon you know there there's a huge Y chromosome bottleneck that happened around the 12 around the younger dry that's unexplainable and it's like does that does that give a little bit of uh you no evidence towards the women tribes of the Amazon >> because there were no men around there's there's no none of our chromosomes. >> Yeah. So there there's a pretty big bottleneck that happened there and Antonio has drawn attention to that too. We also talked about the Clovis culture collapse uh in his big like what he thinks is a smoking gun is the inverted strategraphy. There is a couple times uh where where they've been doing their Clovis research. Archaeologists uh will use a dating method called um optically stimulated luminescence dating uh where you can actually detect the last time uh grains of sand have been exposed to sunlight. >> Oh yeah. >> Right. Right. And so so they can go through and they they test grains of sand to see when the last time they were exposed to sunlight. And we actually in a couple of these crater rims, a couple of these Carolina Bay rims, uh there's an inversion of strategraphy where you go like if you're going down, you see 5,000 years, 9,000.2 years, 11,000.5, 15.5, and then it goes back to 13.1, which is like right around that younger dest boundary. And uh Antonio is like, well, this that the only way that can happen is if you had >> gets splashed up. >> That's right. And and it over it flaps over, right? >> Yep. And and so he uses this as evidence that that these were impacts and it was the the overturn of the rim being formed is why we have the inversion of the strategraphy. And this has actually been found twice. I think I included Yeah, there was actually in a in a Ted Bunch uh journal. This was not part of his actual research. it was like deep in the appendix um where there was some overturned um um strategraphy in that data as well. >> What's the sign significance of that? It was in his appendix. He did he ignored it or something or >> it was I don't think it was crucial to the paper. They included it because they tested it but it wasn't part of what they were looking for. >> It was just the data. Yeah. So they also it's that's been shown in two different data sets basically. >> Yeah. Basically. Yeah. >> Okay. >> Now and again I find that's pretty interesting now. Something that Antonio doesn't like to talk about is that there are other ways that you can get inverted strategraphy. Uh, and I think one of those ways I think that all of the dates actually all of the dates that they get out of here are um erosion events and the younger dus would have been a major erosional event. They these guys agree that it was a major major erosional event at the younger dus. and um sand being blown. If it's blown at night, you're not going to have the resetting of of the optically stimulated luminescence, the resetting of the of the quartz. >> Oh, at night. >> At night. Yeah. If it's blowing at night. So, you know, if it's not it's not like the wind doesn't blow at night. In fact, it actually blows harder at night. And uh you know, that could be why we're finding inverted strategraphy is that they just had a bunch of sand being blown around when it was dark. They're testing it and it has older dates and then it goes back to younger dates. And so I don't think it's a good method to to determine formation of a Carolina bay. I think it does a really good job of of showing erosion events, like big erosion events. Um the evidence as they go deeper into these Carolina bays, they find a couple other dates. Um there's like three or four of them that go into the late plyosene, but OSL is only good to around 300,000 300,000 years or so. Uh and again, if this goes back, if these elliptical shaped depressions date back to close to 800,000 years, um there's really no good way to test that with age with these these age um um methods, aging methods. So I I like I said, I think they found a really good way of determining erosion events and that's the younger dest was a major erosional event. Um again, we have a bunch of evidence uh also for a midplexine transition event. Again, this is where I'll show you some images of of what I saw uh in a second, but uh the A Tech tites I think are really cool. Um and again, I can show you guys a couple of them. I don't know if you can Can you reach into It's in one of the um pockets. Yeah. >> Yeah. Actually >> Oh, cool. >> Yeah. I got these from Hal Pavvenmeer. Um Hal is like basically Mr. Teite. He wrote the book on tectites. >> Howal Pavier was >> Yeah. >> That's so strange. Wait, hold on. How how was the guy who was supposed to have mapped the moon or NASA back in the day, right? >> Yeah. >> And then he gets called down to live with Chris Bledsoe who can call orbs to him at will, it seems. >> Supposedly. Yeah. >> And he investigates Chris's family for for years, sort of living alongside them and visiting them all the time. And you're saying he's also the techie. >> He's the techie guy. Yeah. He's everywhere. >> That is so strange. >> Yeah. It really is. >> Um my wife actually met Hal. He was at a gem and mineral show in Jacksonville. >> No way. And my my uh my mother-in-law is huge into gemstones and and fossils and things like that. Anything anything like that. They they actually go out to Tucson, Arizona, and uh they would come back with boxes of stuff. >> Yeah. Yeah. Of gemstones. >> Yeah. So, she was at a a gem and mineral show in Jacksonville. And uh there was a guy, there was an older gentleman there with a bunch of rocks in front of him and he had a map of Georgia behind him. and uh the map uh had you know speckles of where some of these rocks cuz these the the the tectites that you're holding they find them in Australia and in Asia um which I think is related to the Carolina base story uh which is basically this malass if you had a strong enough light you should be able to see through some of those you should be able to see like all the way through them um we do find tectites in Georgia that actually came from the impact that hit uh the Chesapeake Bay around 55 million years ago So, uh, wow. >> Yeah. About 10 million years after the dinosaur killer, there was an impact into, uh, the Chesapeake Bay that sent me glass from that impact site onto the soils of Georgia and then it was covered up and we actually find, uh, they find them in certain counties in Georgia. The reason why my wife went and introduced herself was because his map had a little spot of missing uh tectites and she just happened to say, you know, hey, my my father has family property right in that spot right there. And he was like, really? Because if we could find some tectites there, that would like completely expand our map into a whole another county. So, he was really excited to to to meet and talk with my wife. And he actually, I said, he gave her the the the tectites um from Australia or Asia. and uh and uh she put him in contact with me. Um she got his number. I called him. Uh we we tried to set up a couple dates to go hunting for Georgia Heights. That's that's the ones I'm different from those. They're actually a really pretty green color. >> Yeah, they're really kind of neat. >> Um and we never could he was probably visiting Chris Bleo and we could never get it to work out and unfortunately he passed away and we never actually were able to to get it done. So had a couple really good long conversations with them but uh never never got to meet him in person. >> Did you ever get to ask him about Carolina Bays in general? >> I did not. But so so the reason um this becomes an important part of the story is because uh when I was talking with Tim Harris uh who's who's on this page right here. Um Tim like I said he he's an engineer. He worked for Boeing and Locky Martin. He's the one who has like done the um the u projectile trajectories of the a tectites and has traced them back to Michigan. Uh which I think is pretty fascinating. And he contacted uh the tectite guy. He contacted the guy and be like, "Hey, can we talk about these tectites?" Uh and he said that um that Hal Pavmeer was coming around. He's like, "You know, you might be right, man." because there's also a really neat um chemical signature of the a tectites that matches the sandstones of Michigan. So, and he was like, "You guys might be on to something on that one." And so, he was really kind of encouraging them to continue their research and to move forward with it. Uh and he and Tim Harris has some really cool how Palmire stories. And so, um this was probably 2019, I guess, 2018. Uh he was coming down to Georgia. He contacted George Howard to see if there was anybody in in this area. Um he was actually going to Savannah. His son was going to get onto a onto a um yacht and and and be a first mate as they work this yacht back up to New York City. And uh he was it was co No, it was 2020 because it was during the right in the middle of COVID. And um I was like, "Dude, just come." He was super worried about it because of because of COVID. I was like, "Just come on. Come on. We're not even wearing masks down here. Let's do yourself." still free country down here. And he was actually super surprised about that. He got here and he was really kind of weirded out and I was like, "Dude, back then I had a pop-up camper and I was like, just go stay in there if you if you are more comfortable." And and uh but yeah, he stayed the night. We had a great we were right here on the back porch talking about Tech Tits and and Hal Pavmeire and Carolina Bays. And at that time, I was not on board with his timing or how they were created. So we I completely disagreed with him at the time. Um but his his discussion with me about uh tracking the a tectites and and you know using the physics behind it I was like in the back of my mind I was like this guy actually sounds really confident and and it's back it's backed up he he he knows what he's talking about and uh over time I looked into it more and more I was like I think and then I had that discussion with uh with Michael Davius about the the um sand hills and the the old ancient barrier islands and that's when I was like okay >> got to you >> that's what got to me right right so through throughout that research that's where I I started looking up you know these are actually um uh this timeline is uh ice ages uh as we go back in time right so we are actually right here MIS it stands for marine oxygen isotope stages um they get these from the ice core the ice cores that we get from Greenland and Antarctica Greenland only goes back so far and and they have to go back deeper in time using the Antarctic uh Antarctica um uh cores and u so we are right here at MIS1 that's our current interglacial right there here we are way down here this is the peak of the last ice age and the younger dus would have been like right around here somewhere um and then you could just kind of go back and look at the peaks right so this was the last interglacial and that was when we had 30 feet of water above us you know from where we are today like where we're sitting in this room in the bunker, we would have had water, you know, 30 feet above our heads or at least, you know, 25 ft above our heads cuz we're there's literally a creek behind here that's that's at at sea level, right? Um and so so that was the last time sea levels were higher than today and they were 30 feet higher to today and the time before that was 400,000 years ago. And like I said, we actually have and have welldated beaches that were formed during those interglacial period times. We had other ones that didn't quite get up to our level. And those old beaches are covered up in our most current, you know, ocean. So, we don't find them anymore. Sometimes you find like sholes or you find like a like a sandbar that was part of an old barrier island, but but there's not much evidence. It's been worked over by the ocean, right? It's flat. If you go to the beach today, it's flat, right? And if if and if you you follow that into the ocean, it's super flat all the way to the to the shelf. And um looking at that, this is where, like I said, I pulled up this image to show Michael Davius the uh the the ancient barrier islands using his LAR. Uh and I got this information from a uh Valdasta State University field trip guide uh where they used to take their students down to the beach and then they would work their way back to the the college. uh and going over these old B ancient barrier islands, you actually see where and when they were formed uh as you make your way up. So, when I clicked on the image, this is the one that that I was like, hold up, wait, wait, wait, wait, hold on. So, we only find Carolina bays on tops of those old barrier islands all the way back. Where are the rest of them? Why are there not Carolina bays? All in this area here. This is all high and dry today. There towns there. There's there's, you know, houses and stuff that are in a lot of that area, but when you click on it, like I said, all those red dots are Carolina bays. I'll show you some other examples, but but this is panned out because this is the one that I used >> way high. >> But but there's a there's a lot of area that should have Carolina bays if they were 13,000 years old. >> It's only on the highest points then. >> It's only on the highest points. >> It's on the highest points. >> Yep. So again, I I' I've this is where I really kind of focus on is around the Myrtle Beach area. For one, a lot of people been to Myrtle Beach. They they you know, you go to the beach at Myrtle Myrtle Beach and and you know, and it's actually if if anybody that goes, it's a steep drop off to get to the beach. Like there's a sand dune right there and it goes right down. That sand dune >> is an old barrier island. It's an old ancient barrier island and the ocean is actually working away at it right now. Like we're actually seeing the process happening today at Myrtle Beach. So, I like using that as an example. And we have really good Carolina bays. Uh, right up here. These are actually some of the Carolina bays that were from that original 1930s picture. Same area. Same area around Myrtle Beach where we find those. And when you click on that LAR again, you can clearly see where the Carolina Bays are, which you can clearly see them without the LAR. Like, right, we see them in these areas right here. That's the Heritage Bays preserve uh in in the Myrtle Beach area. But when you click on the LAR, you can really see where they are and where they're not. And it's the areas where they're not where I'm like, "Okay, why are they not there?" That's where the ocean was 125,000 years ago and 400,000 years ago. And I think that they have been washed away. You can see some You asked that question about are there some Carolina bays that are like truncated? That's the word I like to use is truncated because they have there. Look, there's like one here, one here, one here that are all truncated. There's one right here that's actually you can see the rim heavily eroded right there. Um there's actually a series of bays right here. I think this is really important because these Carolina bays um would have been on the back side of a barrier island. And just like today, you have the beach on on the the windward side. The leeward side of the island is an estuary. It's like a salt marsh. And 125,000 years ago, this area right here would have been a salt marsh. Uh, and and a really easy way to test that, maybe somebody can go do it tomorrow, is to dig in some of these Carolina bays and find pluff marsh mud, find find mud from a Carolina or from from a a salt marsh estuary that would have been there the last time sea levels were higher than today. I think you're going to find >> So, you just dig in and you find a bunch of salt. Basically, >> you don't even need to have like a like a like a a core, you know, like spend all the money and get it. bring a shovel, dig a hole, >> find salt, >> and if there is black marsh mud, then we know that that Carolina biz was there and it was filled in and it survived. It was actually preserved the Carolina Bay >> um over time. So, that's a really quick and easy way to kind of kind of prove that. I haven't done it yet. Need to go. >> You said only a couple cases of inverted strategraphy were found or is it in a lot of Carolina bays? >> Um there's only been there have been two that we that have been found. there's a push like like one of the things that um Antonio Zamora brought up was you know can we just check some more science scientists >> can you guys go check some more >> oh so it could be the case all of them are like that >> it could be that way yeah and like I said again I don't know what it would prove because I again is it proving erosional events or is it proving >> no I think the reason it's interesting is because you mentioned a guy how Pava Meyer who >> studied a place that had inverted strategraphy and pot marks all over which was the moon. >> I think it's the only other place I've heard of that has these pop marks and inverted strategraphy cuz they say the older layers of dirt on the moon are younger. >> Oh, >> the deeper layers of dirt are younger than the top layers. >> That's what I've heard. It doesn't make any sense. And so why is this guy studying? >> I think there's a conspiracy that's about to blossom out of this. And I hope to be the one to coin it. >> Take it. Take it. Run with it. Like I said, I want to go back to fishing. >> That's right. >> You guys do it. So, yeah. Um, I like that though. >> There's something going on there. >> I think I think that there is a story behind Hal Pavomire and I and unfortunately like I said, he's not here anymore. And he was such a secretive guy. Like the only >> stories that I've gotten out of or about how is from personal discussions with people that knew him. >> Yeah. >> Like there's nothing. If you try to look up Hal Pavmeer, you can find nothing. >> Well, the Chris Bledo said he worked for the CIA, right? That's who he was working for when he was investigating. Chris, >> is that what he said? I I don't I know he worked for I think that's what I've heard. Okay. He was he was working for NASA >> uh when um Tim was talking with him too. So I think it was kind of like one of those >> you know he still maintained his NASA privileges or whatever. I don't know if he was actually getting nothing with the CI. >> Yeah. Like I said he was selling rocks at a at a gem and mineral show. >> So it could have been just like a retirement thing. I don't know. Right. >> But uh and like I said I I don't even know if he was selling them. He may have just had like aformational display set up and you know he he gave my wife a couple of those and they're they're worth >> These are so cool. >> Some money. Yeah. >> So these are actually from Australia that area or >> Yeah. Yeah. They're those are probably from from Asia. Yeah. >> Okay. >> Yeah. Yeah. That's where they find a bunch of them. >> Looks like they have little pock marks in them too actually. >> Yeah. The pot marks are really cool. So, one of the discussions I had with Tim Harris the night that he was here uh was that those pot marks are plasma arcs, like stratospheric plasma arcing. And when I was at the cosmic summit just last month, you know, with you guys, um I had a discussion with Dallas Abbott and she's there. she's there as the um she's a tsunami expert like she's big onto mega tsunamis and um she brought up stratospheric plasma arcs because the last big event that we see like stratospheric plasma arcing was the Hunga Tonga um volcanic eruption that occurred in the middle of you know >> 1908. No, >> no, no, no, no. The Hunga Tonga happened like like two years ago, three years ago. Yeah. that was like 20 2020. >> But um it was such a big deal like it was such a large eruption that actually started under the ocean >> and the eruption was so big and so tall that it sent ocean water all the way up to the stratosphere. That's huge. That's a big deal. And uh the amount of lightning that that caused to hap which is plasma, you know, the amount of lightning arcing that happened from that eruption um was actually causing micro tectites to form because of the eruption causing that to go all the way up to the the stratosphere. And she was looking for the plasmarks and the microt tectites and the tsunami evidence. The tsunami wash up on from from other places. So she was using that as a like a proxy evidence for tsunamis is using that plasma marking on on tectites which I find interesting too. So >> awesome. It is interesting. >> Yeah. >> Um so I just had a couple other examples that I want to show you guys. Again, I I don't I don't see any way around, you know, the a younger date when you start looking at some of these pictures where you see some of these that are literally this one here >> had water go into it, stand in it for a while, and then wash back out during the time of the last interglacial. It's not like I oftenimes I get people that that bring up tsunamis, speaking of of Dallas Abbott, you know, like, well, the tsunami could have done that. And that's not how tsunamis work. They don't they're not going to go right up to the last shoreline and then wash back out. you would see like ribbons or you would see a lot of a lot of these really big tsunamis, they're so big or so high in elevation because they're rushing up a valley or something like that. So you end up with these long ribbons. Uh you don't see like the whole coastline washing up and Yeah. >> Yep. >> Yep. >> Makes sense. >> Yeah. So anyways, we've got these um you know, they're all truncated and they they um this is a good example. We uh earlier we're talking about uh Camp Lleune. Uh this is actually the location of Camp Lleon. Uh this is one of their bombing or their artillery ranges. Um and when you click on the LAR, you see that that artillery range is actually halfway in at Carolina Bay that was truncated right in half. >> Wow. >> And you have that whole rim right there. Uh and there's also a couple like this one here is just like a little tiny corner of one. There's, you know, a couple other ones there. >> It's compelling. So, um, and again, you you can actually, if you understand the geology, you can see that you go up to this peak right here. This is the the peak of where we're at, and then it goes back down into the, uh, it might be the Waka River or something that's behind. I can't remember which which river that is. That's back here. Um, but it goes up and then back down. So, all of this right here was under the ocean as well. Not the ocean, but it could have been a big bay like the Chesapeake Bay today. Um, yep. Um, I mentioned earlier about the Delm Marva Peninsula being like an exception to the rule because we do find that these are, see how they're all in blue. That's not quite above that 30 ft mark. Uh, and so these areas, but this whole area has been sinking down. We also see some down in this area right here, which was on the estuary side of a barrier island. Um, and then on the opposite direction, we have places like Charleston, which is actually known for being very tectonically active. Um they have earthquakes in Charleston. Uh that's you mentioned 1908, but I think it was actually 1890 something. There was a big earthquake in Charleston. Uh but that's because that area is slowly rising. It's actually rising up instead of sinking like the Delm Marva Peninsula. This area is rising. And so there are areas that are should be covered in Carolina bays regardless of when they occurred. Um, but this area has been rising for quite a while and I'm I'm guessing it's going to be around 786,000 years ago that it's been rising up and and we don't see those anymore. So, but yeah, you see all the high elevation areas. You see the the red marks which are uh if we zoomed in, you would see that they're Carolina bays. >> So, it is it reminds me of like how my skin is freckling because I'm getting older. It it's just there's so many freckles on my skin and when you look at these pictures it's like it's like the whole country must have been just blasted by something by >> Yeah. >> wasn't age I guess >> of sorts. >> Of sorts. Yeah. >> Man, this is so comprehensive. >> Yeah. I hope so. You know, I've been I've been harping about this for 10 years. I I told you, you know, 2015 is when I kind of decided after hearing Randle Carlson on Joe Rogan and I was like, I'm you know what? I I'm going to start to focus back on some of this stuff that I was interested in back in the early 2000s and uh and my mind has changed. You know, I've I've gone through this this whole process. Um I still think that this was an impact. I think that it was a big I think it was a bigger deal than the younger dus. Uh and I think we're going to start finding that. I think once we kind of start focusing in on some some of these impact because we know that there was a big impact that happened then literally there are glass black glass rocks scattered across Asia. Um and and once we start to really look we're going to find that that that this was a big deal. The Carolina Bays were part of that. Um and it was a there there's going to be a lot of evidence I think that are going to support that eventually. We just have to get there. you know, 13,000 years ago, we haven't even solved that one yet. So, let's And I'm fine with let's let's focus on that. That's kind of what I'm doing right now, too, is if if this separates it from the younger trias, >> sure, let's do it. Let's separate it. Let's let's we can focus on it later. >> You know what I mean? >> Well, the mystery of the Carolina bays will live on, but I really appreciate the work you've done to help help us try to get a step closer. It's also just a cool example of like thought leadership. Thanks for >> thinking your thoughts and leading. >> Appreciate it. Thank you. >> Cool. >> Thanks for being on, Chris. >> All right.