#20 Jay Anderson - Ancient Clues, Modern Revelations and Exploring Hidden Dimensions

[Music] If you're looking at it from a multivariate perspective, you start realizing that a lot of these ancient megalithic sites have kind of like a scientific package put into them. I think the pyramids were discovered by the dynastic Egyptians. I don't think that the Great Pyramid of Giza was built for Kufu or anything like that. I I think that they go f farther back than we're allowed to even really kind of imagine. >> Do you give any credibility to Giants? Aam's razor keeps getting abused so much by the mainstream because it's like, well, it's a simplistic explanation. It was hunter gatherers. That just because it's a simple explanation doesn't mean it's logical, man. Like, that's dumb. It's a dumb explanation. The moment this thing got directly above my head. It was like there was a vacuum in the center because this cloud got sucked into itself from all sides. It just kind of went into itself like this. And whilst it was doing that, it revealed what was actually inside the cloud, which was a triangle formation. >> Jay Anderson has been covering a wide variety of topics for about 6 years, including UFOs, aliens, ancient civilizations, global cataclysms, you name it. This guy is a compendium of information. And we met him at the Cosmic Summit, and he is also one of the coolest dudes there is. So, we asked him if we could interview him, and he said yes. So, we got to join him online because he's over in the UK and we just had a really fun conversation. He ju he just got back from Egypt where he did a fiveday trip and he's slowly dripping out this like multi-part series in 4K of all this coverage that I've never seen before on Egypt and he's about to go to Peru and do it do it more. So, he's on his way up. He's one of the most interesting guys I know and I hope you enjoy it. This is the Austin and Matt podcast. Thanks for coming on. It's really fun. >> Welcome. Happy to be here. Happy to be here. >> Look, man. Yeah, >> go ahead. >> I was going to say it's interesting. I was watching you on Jesse Michaels, man. You're so knowledgeable on the fringe topics. Like you're impressively knowledgeable and given that I know that about you. What took you back to Egypt specifically? That's kind of an interesting place to go because it is like the epicenter of fringe. I'm just kind of curious what it was that really >> I mean like I guess I guess like the the big impetus was the Cafra pyramid project and the synthetic aperture radar scans obviously doing a coverage on that and got a lot of eyeballs on Egypt from that and got to meet the team behind the Cafra pyramid scans as well and you know they're very interesting people so it kind of spurred on because I'd come back from Malta uh previously because I was filming out there because I've become very interested in ancient prehistoric kind of Neolithic history all of these megalithic thick multi-tonon stone building projects that popped up around times before written history or before the wheel or before you know we had complex tools and I find this fascinating. So I've been diving into this for the past few years anyway just as part of my research avenues that I like to fall down but then the Cafra pyramid scans came out with these incredible claims about you know huge spiraling structures under the pyramids and it just lit a fire up under me. So I felt like I needed to go back out to Egypt and the stars kind of aligned because I went out to Malta to meet the Cafra Pyramid team for their international conference. And it was at that conference that I met Jeffrey Drum who's basically the lead presenter of my entire series because he's got this YouTube channel called the land of chem and he's all about the Egyptian pyramid complexes being essentially like massive industrial scale chemical plants. And so I had a good talk with him in Malta and I said, "Hey, look man, if I'm ever out in Egypt, I'd love to link up with you. you know, we should go out and film some of these places. And he was like, "Yeah, absolutely." And then it just come to the point where I was like, "Should we do it?" So, I went out and spent 5 days out there with uh Jeffrey and we went across the Giza Plateau. We went out to Sakara. We did a lot of stuff and uh managed to get it all in really quite stunning 4K quality cinematic video, which isn't very common. I mean, a lot of these places have been videoed and a lot of incredible alternative researchers have gone to these sites and filmed and talked about it, but no one's really captured it in that kind of quality. So, I was really proud of like how crisp, how clear it was. A lot of people can't get out to these places. It feels like maybe this is the the next best thing, right, to get you as close as you possibly could without actually going through the screen. >> Yeah, it was unbelievable. I've seen three of them so far and I think you're going to be releasing four and five. How many How many are there going to be? To be honest, this is going to be a rolling thing like because I'm I'm maybe going out to Peru like next month. So, this is going to be part of the ancient technology. I'm just going to keep it going with different places I go to. Whenever I can get funding to go somewhere, I'll make another episode of ancient technologies. >> One of the things that stood out to me was that was how industrial the pyramids appeared. Like that with the different veins where some were big enough where he said where fluid could roll through it and some were smaller and so he thought copper lines were running through. And just some of these moments where he's like, "Here's a little thing and there was a copper wire and let's go look over here." And he walks 200 yards to this to one direction and he's like, "Here's another one." And they're pointing at each other >> like and like mirror mirror polished alabaster that's situated underneath limestone paving stones that have these conduit channels in it. is like, you know, this incredible amount of effort to polish this alabaster and cut these channels into them, but then you're putting multi-tonon slabs of limestone over the top of these things so they could never be lifted up and examined again. Like what exactly was the purpose of that? Because it's not going to be for aesthetics. It's underneath the paving stone. So yeah, it kind of it does invoke functionality of some sort. >> Totally. And then you look at alabaster and I think he was saying how it has conductive properties or insulation properties. insulation properties and also very good for acoustic propagation much like limestone. So you find that like the Sakara site, the UNAS pyramid, which is right adjacent to these alabaster uh paving and blocks that we were looking at, these conduit channels. Right next door to it, you've got the UNAS pyramid or the pyramid of Wenise, uh depending on how old you want to look at the name. And this entire pyramid is made of limestone and rose quartz, granite, and alabaster. And then down in the bottom of this pyramid, which is one of the coolest things, I mean, there's so many different uh elements of Sakara to focus on in terms of like invoking a form of lost technology or a contradiction in the historical timeline. But just one really interesting addition was those shadow figures. I don't know if you saw that. Like these figures that basically were only illuminated with a certain angle of the light. And you're inside this like bottom chamber of the UNS pyramid. And that entire back chamber, the entire back section is one solid slab of alabaster, calsite crystal. So it's just this gigantic slab of crystal. And you got all of these like Aramaic um symbols scratched all over the I mean it's beautiful. I mean the calligraphy and the artwork is incredible. But underneath these like scratched on drawings, there are these precision. It's not even etched. It's like >> No, they're like molded into the crystal. You know what I mean? And only when he only when he took that flashlight and put it right next to the wall and shined it down the light down the wall, you saw the indentations and all of a sudden this like figure appears indented into the wall. That was it was >> completely invisible to me before he showed it and it just goes wham and it suddenly appears and there's more on the other walls as well. And something that Jeffrey pointed out is when we squeezed behind the big sarcophagus that's in the middle of this chamber, you get around the back of it, the hieroglyphs stop around the back of the sarcophagus. So clearly they didn't they couldn't get round to the back of it to do the chis. Yeah, it was in there signatures in there. There's plaster on some of the rose quartz granite where they've got like a clear um like piece of plaster has been stuck on and that's got the hieroglyphs on. So, it's very obvious that this this site was found by the dynastic Egyptians. They discovered it. They repurposed it. Perhaps they did use it as a tomb, but that was certainly not the original function. I mean, you know, the the acoustics in there are incredible. I mean, once you enter that chamber, everything's echoing and resonating. And then again, you've got the limestone acoustic propagation, alabaster acoustic propagation, rose quartz granite excited by acoustic vibration and creates electrical conductivity. So you know these two materials coupled together is something you see all across Egypt and to be honest all across the ancient world but Egypt very much concentrating on limestone and rose quartz granite and these two things are very energetically complimentary to each other. >> Yeah it's really material science. It's not it's not art. It's not decorative. It's just material science. It's you can there are there are engineering reasons why they picked these types of things is because they work well together from from a material science standpoint. >> And this is often dismissed by mainstream archaeologists because for the most part they don't have like a multivariate multi-disiplinary knowledge set. They're just spec specifically focused on archaeology. They're not looking at kind of like the geoenergetic implications of certain types of stone and why you know that orientation might actually have some sort of physics capability behind it. But if you're looking at it from you know biopysics and quantum mechanics and astral alignments and energetic networks on the planet from electromagnetics if you're looking at it from a multivariate perspective you start realizing that a lot of these ancient megalithic sites have kind of like a scientific package put into them. You've got the engineering, you've got the multi-tonon lifting, you've got the energetic alignments, you've got the solar alignments, you've got acoustic engineering that seems to interact with brain waves, and then of course the specific choice of materials being used which seem to be energetically complimentary to one another. So if you're just going down that very refined channel of like archaeological academia, none of that's going to come into your side view. But as an alternative researcher who's fringe and you're diving into consciousness and physics and technology, you know, you start seeing these dots connecting a little bit easier than the uh the academics to be honest. >> What were some of the things? So the the specials are awesome and one of the things I was hoping to get a little more of was your take on it because I like when you saw this, what what's the cuz and and it's not that anyone really knows. So, now that you've seen it and kind of been through it, what is your what's a 10,000 view take on sort of what was going on as far as you can guess? >> Man, I mean, I think that I think the alchemy is really real. So, I mean, Jeffrey Drum's whole idea on this is specifically geared towards the chemicals and chemical manufacturing. I think that represents a facet of something like it seems that there is good evidence for some form of chemical manufacturing and processes going on in these sites and I think he presents a pretty compelling case for that. But I think that Egypt in ancient Egypt, it really seemed to represent uh like that Hermes, Trismaistice, as above so below, the science and the spirit. And I think that this perhaps played a component like the chemicals maybe played a role in these pyramid structures, but perhaps it was more alchemically driven. So there's a a physical process, but maybe it's leaning more towards a consciousness or alchemical outcome. And that's the lost knowledge that we don't really understand anymore in terms of what they were achieving spiritually, consciously, alchemically through apparently scientific processes. I think >> that was one of the takeaways that I had too is he would say like here's where methane would get produced or something. But then I thought, well, what are you going to do with that methane once it produced? Like did they have cylinders and they like put them in cylinders and transported them somewhere? Like it sort of felt like and why why did we make this huge factory to make this much methane like like certainly at least if they were our size >> kind of feels like you've got like a hazy map and we've colored in a little bit of it okay methane production okay like there's stuff going on that's okay but that's not the full image that's not the full picture in my opinion I agree with that and again yeah I think it just comes back to like a more metaphysical component to it that hasn't really been understood because that knowledge has been lost or ignored by modern humanity and we just haven't got back to realizing how these science spirit things can connect in the way that they obviously did in the pre-dynastic old kingdom and you know before that in ancient Egypt. Again, I think the pyramids were discovered by the dynastic Egyptians. I don't think that the great pyramid of Giza was built for kufu or anything like that. I I think that they go f farther back than we're allowed to even really kind of imagine. >> Do you give any credibility to giants? Because like if you're going to make if you're going to make an engine that makes methane like as a human I'm going to make one about the size of a lawn mower or a bigger or but like there's no reason to make one huge pyramid to make methane. If I'm if all I really need is methane. Let's make like 30 of those little guys instead of like one huge one unless there was some bigger species or something and that was that that was their lawn mower. You know what I mean? Like >> Yeah. I mean like that's what gets me about megalithic stone building in general especially in such contradictory periods of time where they weren't supposed to have this type of knowledge and engineering capability and you know if it was the fact that they're doing this on such a wide scale because again these huge multi-tonon stone building projects are found all over the world it would seem that they were apparently easy or like not that difficult for them to be doing otherwise why the [ __ ] would you be doing it cuz it's just like such a ridiculous feat to imagine a hunter gatherer trying to achieve, let alone, you know, forget about all of the other elements of this like again the astronomical alignments and all the specific mathematics in just the lifting and the cutting and the placing of these incredibly huge stones. Um, so I think it invokes a time period again like a lot of people it's becoming a popular thing to look back at the younger dryers 12,800 years ago that there was a lost civilization but I actually do lean towards this and I think that places like for example Gobeclete in Turkey seem to be really suggesting this timeline. And I think it's so funny that um you know the mainstream historians and archaeologists will still try and say that this must have been done by the hunter gatherers in this region of Turkey because the only evidence they have for that region is hunter gatherers. But it's just like so what? They they popped out of their deer hide tents of one day put down their spears and just started erecting you know these incredible sites that are aligned to different star systems. Like it makes literally no sense. And I feel like Okam's razor keeps getting abused so much by the mainstream because it's like, well, it's a simplistic explanation. It was hunter gatherers. Like that just because it's a simple explanation doesn't mean it's logical, man. Like that's dumb. It's a dumb explanation. It's more likely to invoke some form of higher society that was in that region. And since we don't have evidence for a high society in that region on mass, we have to assume that somewhere like Gobeclete must have been almost like an enclave, a survival group of some form. Yeah. It gives me it it reminds me of like in the industrial revolution when we would build trains and then we would have child labor because their hands were small enough to like reach into the engines and like fix little things where it's almost like we're was the were the humans the the the in the analogy were the humans the little children in this situation because they could just erect these huge structures seemingly without much problems and then we could go in there and kind of tidy it up and kind of keep it for them or something. >> Yeah. Sorry, I kind of I kind of trailed away from giants there, but I'll bring it back to um I'll no because it's really interesting to me like the whole thing about giants and I find it really strange that I mean I'm not a a a religious person in in a specific group but I've read enough texts and the Bible is very interesting at the beginning. It's like Genesis is like there were giants in those times, great mighty men of renown. Anyway, moving on and never goes back to it again and it's just like that's a really weird thing to put right at the beginning. like FYI, there were giants. They were around. They were doing crazy things. And anyway, we're going to get past that now and continue on with the book. And it's like, okay. And if you look at the um uh like the Watchers, the whole idea of like the Nephilim or the Watchers from the Book of Enoch, they um supposedly came down on Mount Hernand Lebanon. And Lebanon is where you have Balbeck, which is the incredible quarry where you've got these, you know, 1,00 to 1,800 ton limestone blocks that have been quarried out of the ground. They haven't been moved, but they were quarried apparently with some form of intention to use them. And then just down the road from this quarry in Balbeck, you have the Temple of Jupiter, which is attributed to first century Romans. But the foundation stones of the Temple of Jupiter, including these stones that have been lifted about 30 m into the uh into the air and placed above some other ones, are about about 800 tons or 800 to a,000 tons, the trilithan stones, these three stones. And um the heaviest recorded lift from first century Romans was the uh Lateran obelisk from Alexandria to Rome that weighed about 400 to 450 tons. That's the heaviest lift that the Romans ever recorded. But apparently they did Balbeck as well where you've got 800 to a,000 tons, but they just never bothered to say anything even though that's incredibly impressive and beyond anything else they ever did. So again, it's like, you know, of course you find in the temple of Jupiter in Balbeck evidence of first century Roman building, but they assume that then okay, the whole thing must be Roman even though the foundations contradict what the Romans were capable of doing. And again, you find that all over the world, but it's interesting that the whole Watchers Nephilim story puts Lebanon on the map. And then in Lebanon, you have quite literally the most impressive examples of colossal blocks in the world. Um, you know, what was going on there? Maybe this really was ground zero for some form of intelligence that was giant in stature and capable of lifting these things. And you know there's references to giants in the iconography of Egypt and different temple sites you go to. You find like you know the the large um pharaohs and other quite kind of almost Atlantan looking beings holding strange technologies of some form or like you know the big light bulb motif which is very famous. the uh the infamous light bulb which you can find in the temple of Dendara which I've seen myself and it's so weird when you're actually looking at it because it's such a internet culture captured image of this you know giant being holding what looks like a light bulb and these smaller beings preying underneath it but you find that all over the world you know these these um kind of like references to giants Gilgamesh holding a lion like it's a cat you know the statues of him just holding these lions like this like it's nothing and again like the mainstream uh way of kind of dismissing that is Oh, they were giants of, you know, intellectual stature, giants of power, you know, horrible. It was it wasn't real. But, uh, I I don't know, man. I think that there's a lot of, uh, a lot of argument to say that there could have been something like this. And I would also say that there seems to have been relatively modernday cover-ups of that stuff in terms of bones and excavations of burial mounds and suspicious sizes of skeletons that have been quietly hurried away by the Smithsonian and other institutes like this. So yeah, I I think that we don't know our own history and maybe some of it would really freak us out. >> I don't get it. Why would they hide the giant bones? Why would they do that? Why Why get them away? You know what I mean? Like cuz I think they're obviously not here now. Like wherever they were if they were here, it doesn't seem like they're at least present in our day-to-day. And so what is the what is the motive for kind of doing that? I'm with you though. Like it the only it makes sense that larger somethings built these larger somethings. Like why would small people build such large things and go to such great lengths for that? We we don't do that today and we consider ourselves to be like the pinnacle of science and everything and we we don't even have aspirations of doing these things. >> Well, it's like I I I don't know maybe it's like theologically influenced in terms of you know who controlled the doctrine and the dogma as it went through various transformations over time. I mean, you look at the Bible and like the Council of Nika and different elements throughout history where they edited and changed and removed things and created the Apocrythia, the books that get rejected and not in the original cannon. And I think that maybe I mean, who knows, right? We really don't know. But if there really were giant beings and there was perhaps this great flood that essentially reset the world, it might be viewed as an error, a time to be forgotten, right? like we're going to forget about this time where we had these terrible giant beings that were ruining things for humans. And because there's a lot of stories that make it sound like we weren't really in a very fair relationship, like they abused and raided and attacked us and some liked us and some didn't like us and it was a real kind of dynamic between, you know, us and these demigods or whatever you want to look at them as. And so perhaps it's a a period of history that in some subconscious way was just kind of ignored. And maybe theologically they just reinforce that by removing the texts and getting rid of the scriptures that spoke about this in too much detail. And you I wouldn't be surprised if the uh you know the somewhat 50 miles or so of shelving that the Vatican has underneath of it for the secret archives, the apostolic archives. I'm sure they've got a few things down there about Nephilim and giant beings. And I think it just comes down to who's controlling the narrative like anytime, right? And like anything, whether it's politics or history or theology, who's controlling the story? And if you're writing the Bible or if you're deciding what gets taken in and out, then perhaps there was an incentive to not talk about these very strange things that we couldn't explain and we didn't really understand the ancient texts. What were they referring to? Kings that lived for thousands of years. I don't understand. And you know, it was just like, get rid of this. It's too confusing. Do you think it might be to throw us off the trail of the technology that maybe that group had before before our current civilization? Because one reason I would want to well, one reason I'd want to erase giants from the public like memories is if those giants had tech that I would like to monopolize and just have for myself. >> You know what I mean? Could it be to just throw us off the trail of that? Because we're not going to go look for it if we don't think they existed. >> Yeah. I mean, it's all guesswork because we don't know if they had technology and you know, we don't know what they I mean, there's a lot of suspicion, I suppose you could say, and a lot of uh, you know, suggestive evidence towards the use of sound and acoustics and strange technologies that leveraged acoustics in ways that allowed uh, you know, stones to be moved easier or perhaps even to soften them down a little bit. And, you know, there could be these elements. This is very interesting. You know, when you go out into places like Nepal and Tibetum and you speak to these like monks and and Buddhists who have these incredible histories of using the Tibetan horns, you know, these gigantic Tibetan horns are like the size of a room. And uh there's some stories about, you know, very secretive monasteries out in the high mountains that are able to levitate stones through specifically arranging all of these monks in geometries with the correct tools and the correct instruments. And I think that there's definitely a sound science that's been kept within certain theological traditions quite quietly that's been picked up on. I mean, you see it very clearly once you understand simatic geometry, the geometry of sound, the uh the the uh geometric patterns that are created by different frequencies of acoustics. Because once you start looking at those different patterns that get created by acoustic vibration, you start seeing them in churches and temples and cathedrals all over the world. the stained glass windows, the geometry of the actual structure itself is a simatic geometry. It's a it's a language of sound which would tell us what that perhaps this is a language of spirit. That the real language of spirit is through sound and vibration. Well, what did Tesla say? He said if you want to understand the secrets of the universe, you have to think in terms of energy and vibration and frequency. And I think this is something that was tapped into by our ancestors intuitively and that led them to very radical ideas and abilities to actually uh you know kind of bring things into reality that we can't understand right now because even at our extremely advanced levels of science we're on the bleeding edges of things like quantum mechanics and quantum bioysics. And it's in those arenas right on the edge of development that we're going, "Oh, it's actually very similar to what the mystics and the Sufis and the High Lamas have been saying for thousands of years." So, it feels like we're on what Terrence McKenna would call the archaic revival, kind of bringing back a lot of this ancient knowledge through the lens of modern science. And I think there's a lot of lost science and missed corridors of science that we haven't gone down in our time that have been explored in previous times. >> And the guy Yeah. >> Go ahead. Well, the guys who do seem to discover it like Edward Lee Scolin, are you familiar with the coral castle in Florida? >> Oh, yeah. That's fascinating, right? Like you know this one dude building a megalithic construct out in Florida, right? >> Yeah. Just by himself at night time apparently nobody ever sees him move these huge blocks. >> Well, very strange. >> It's almost like as we discovered electricity and because all what what you're saying even all these old cathedrals and all these simatics, I mean, this is pre-elect electricity. Like this is this is so far before any technological advancement that it it reminds me of like math class how maybe you learn how to do long division but then you get a calculator and then you never have to remember how to do long division again and now you get chat GPT and it can just do it for you. So we in our brains actually get to be more and more lazy because the tech sort of takes over for us. And so without having that tech to lean on by going into these states of meditation or these different states of consciousness they were actually tapping into deeper more real truths. Then all of a sudden our brains got lazy because we had electricity and we had calculators and we you know it just kind of has kept going. Well, I mean, it almost feels like they were they were more plugged into intuition because if you look at some of the greatest examples of scientists throughout time, all of the greatest scientists were intuitive. I mean, yes, they were able to produce it empirically. That's what made them great scientists, not great philosophers. They were great scientists because they could take that intuitive information that was coming to them from realms beyond their understanding and condense it down into formulas and, you know, mathematics and models. And I think that if you're looking at the ancients, of course, they were still very intuitively drawn to the nature of the planet, to the rhythms of the energy of the planet. And I think that if you are in that type of mindset, you're going to be intuitively downloading a lot more. And so they, you know, wrote down and drew these geometries and they figured out the uh mathematics of pi and the golden ratio just from looking at rivers and observing things and understanding nature. and they didn't understand it from a physics perspective or a fractal geometry perspective or the plank level of physics perspective, but they did understand it in a different spiritual metaphysical way that couldn't be fully evidenced. It's kind of like that's the weird thing and that's why it feels very clear to me that like science and intuition need to come together because intuition does get there first. It gets there first without the evidence, but it does get there first. And it's basically a given without any exception in terms of like big existential things throughout humanity. The intuition has already got there and then hundreds of years down the line we empirically evidence it through chipping at the bedrock of reality. And it's a lot slower of a process. And um I think it's a lot slower of a process because intuition seems to cut straight through the material, right? It goes right down into the aashic field or whatever you want to call that. And the physical approach of studying the environment that we're in, that's a lot slower. You're actually observing the matter. You're trying to break through these different boundaries. Consciousness goes right through it down to the bottom, gets the information, comes back up, but with nothing in its pockets. The science put something in our pockets. And I think that these two things are now coming together in a pretty weird way. >> It reminds me of Einstein when he was 26 years old working in the patent patent office and he's thinking about if I traveled at the speed of light and I held a mirror in front of me, would I see my face? And he had an intuition that came to him and he was thinking about it for a long time that yeah, eventually he he realized I would see my face traveling at the speed of light holding a mirror in front of me. I would still see my face in that mirror. How could that be? And he actually knew the answer, but then he knew he didn't know the math to prove it. So he had to go recruit other mathematicians to help then after the fact after he gained that intuition, he had mathemat other mathematicians help him write the math that ended up showing that he was correct. Jay, do you consider yourself like spiritual or how does how does spirituality I guess serve you? How do you view it? >> I I I I consider myself spiritual in the sense that I do not think that consciousness uh is is restricted to the body. I think that the body is a conduit of consciousness. So whatever happens to consciousness after this particular bodily life, I don't know. But I don't think it gets destroyed or dies. So I mean I've had weird experiences. is I mean my entire research journey and establishing Project Unity came from having experiences with anomalous phenomena off of the back of actually making mental requests to see if something would turn up and it did. What happened? >> You know um well that was back in 2019 man. That was during lockdown and um I mean to cut a long story short I became aware of the whole kind of C5 and the the idea of making contact through consciousness. I'm assuming you guys have come across that before or >> Yeah, is is where you try to initiate the contact and you bring it to you, right? That's something David Greer I think talked a lot about. And then >> Steven Greer. Yeah. Um >> I'm sorry. Steven Greer. Yeah. >> No, no, you're good. Like he's a very divisive person in in the whole UFO community and like you know to be honest for a good reason because he he bullshits a lot. But C5 is real. C5 is real. um you know I'd never used his particular method but just the basic understanding that a communication and interface of some format can take place through you projecting the intention that you want something at a very sincere level and something will turn up. Now, a lot of people, I don't know, their knee-jerk reaction is like, you know, you're just messing with demons. You're messing with demonic stuff. What are you doing? And um, you know, maybe they're right. But I never had a bad experience like that, I was genuinely just getting into like a calm meditative state in my back garden at night. And then from that point, very clearly modeling my thoughts. Um, that I wanted something to turn up to validate these ideas about universal consciousness. if something's there, if you can hear me. And like, if you can feel this request, I I want to see you. I want to know. And I did that enough times I started having strange things happen in the sky. It happened quite lightly to begin with with flashes of light and zips of light that were really weird that would just catch my eye. And it was enough to keep me going out because things were starting to look a bit weird in my night sky. And I've always been someone who watches the night sky. And I know what satellites are. I know what aridium flares look like and meteorites and there was stuff happening that just wasn't normal. Satellites that would start turning and going a completely opposite direction and stuff like this, right? So, I was out in my garden making these requests and um having these weird subtle interface experiences or at least that's how it felt. And then in August of 2019, same thing out in my garden. And uh it's a it's a crazy story. I actually saw these things on three other occasions, but this is the first time I saw them. Um, I was looking up at the sky and I was panning around and I saw this like dark cloud and I kind of did like a double take. It was a crystal clear night other than this one dark cloud that was uh like off in the horizon. And I I was looking around. I looked back at this cloud and it was when I looked back at it that I realized it had a really weird visual effect going on with it. is it was subtle. Yeah, you only saw it when you looked at it properly, but when I looked at it properly, it had this like light overlay of of static. Like it was like >> fizzling and there was like an interference >> like a hologram like a like a >> Yeah, like it was shimmering. Like it was just like not right. There was something not right with it. And obviously at that point I'm transfixed on this cloud and I'm at the back of my garden. And if we pretend that my fist is my house, this cloud is basically going in a trajectory where it looks like it's going to go across past my house and then off in that direction like right across and I'm at the back. Instead of doing that, it gets literally above my house and I kid you not, this cloud did a right angle turn and starts coming towards me, right? It's going to be above my head in a second. And this was such an abrupt, right? I mean, I'm talking like suddenly it's going a complete opposite direction, right? And at that point, I 100% knew like, oh my god, like something is actually happening. This is this is a thing. I was not scared, but I was totally fixed in place, like completely transfixed watching this cloud coming slowly towards me and it's going to be directly above my head in a second. It gets above my head. How big is this cloud? Is it like >> It's hard to like It's hard to guess, but like it was fairly substantial. like, you know, it was like I don't know. Um, it's really hard, isn't it? Like on the ground, was it? >> Oh, I mean, I would say it was like low atmosphere. Like, it seemed to be pretty high up in the in the sky. I mean, you know, it's like the size of a plane like kind of level. >> Okay. >> Um, you know, and it was like large enough for me to be seeing this quite big cloud coming towards me right in the sky. It wasn't small. And uh so it gets above my head and I swear to God guys like the moment this thing got directly above my head it was like there was a vacuum in the center because this cloud got sucked into itself from all sides. It just kind of went into itself like this. And whilst it was doing that, it revealed what was actually inside the cloud, which was a triangle formation of about 25 to 30 orange orbs of light in a triangle formation. >> Oh gosh. >> And it didn't stop. It re it literally like I swear this is true. Like it did this effect where it sucked it into itself and revealed this triangle and it kept going. So I had to turn around and watch as this thing went off into the distance. But as I was watching it, I could see that some of these orbs were actually swapping places in this formation. So I don't I don't think it was a a solid triangle craft. It was like a squadron of orbs um that I witnessed. And then like I said, I saw them on three other occasions, including one occasion where three of them came and hovered about 5 ft above the roof of my house. But these are situations where you're you're actively sort of calling things in, >> actively asking for something to turn up and like really locked into that mode as well. Like it seems to be like a very strange state of consciousness that >> you know like it's not like it's not like you're just going out there and being like hey like come and turn up. Like I was just over and over again in my head like kind of pushing out the same thought like I want to see you. I'm ready like I want to show me I'm I'm I'm ready to see this. And like it over and over like a trance like it really and you slip into like a bit of a weird repetitive state of consciousness and then it suddenly happens then something suddenly flashes or something takes your attention and it happens and you know when I started having these experiences I was just like well I I need to tell people about it. So, I went out into the forest near me and just set up a camera away from everyone and was just like, "Hello, I'm I'm having these experiences and, you know, this is my story." and I found out a lot of people were having similar experiences and that's how I got thrown into uh the UFO research field and you know 3 years later I'm sitting down in a cafe in Arizona with a CIA officer or going off to Florida to meet someone who worked for Los Alamos special projects or I've had a weird time with the UFO subject got thrown in very deep into that and uh but it all came off of the back of having these experiences and even ancient history and these corridors I'm going down now they all correlate in terms of a deeper understanding of consciousness, of human spiritual connectivity, of other interactions with other intelligences that seem to be hinted throughout historical record. So, it all correlates, man. It all correlates. >> Before you had these experiences, did you have like any inclination towards uh C5 like towards aliens or or the fringe topics? >> Not really. >> No. >> What were you doing what did you spend your time doing before that? >> I was a rock climbing instructor. Um used to be a DJ. for a bit. >> Sick. >> Yeah, dude. I I I played at Ministry of Sound in London, like the big club in Ministry of Sound. Like, yeah, I used to be big into DJing and I was uh Yeah, big into my rock climbing. Still am. I still go climbing. I like to I like to go climbing a lot, but um yeah, I was like a pretty normal guy. I did like TV and film production in uni uh at university in London and uh then went off and did climbing as an instructor for a while and worked at London Zoo. I've I've had just like odd jobs, weird stuff, like you know, random stuff. I I was never like didn't have like a real direction. Um, but the reason there's a longer story which I've addressed on my podcast before like the reason why I was outside in my garden at night comes off of the back of like you know a few years of feeling lost and trying to find purpose and like you know sitting and asking for a sign and then a sign turning up and then I watch this documentary and Steven Greer exists suddenly and he's talking about C5 and I try C5 and it worked. It's just like boom boom boom boom boom you know. So, it's like a whole uh up and down life story as to why I ended up in my back garden at night trying to summon things with my mind because that's not a normal thing to be doing. But it was uh quite obvious to me at the time that this is what I needed to be doing. And it worked. Uh I don't know what to tell people. I wouldn't I wouldn't ever say, "Oh, I know what they are and they're our space brothers and we're here to have like enlightenment together." Like I don't know. I'd love it if that's true, but it is [ __ ] real. Yeah. H how is that? And then going into what you've been doing with your channel and going into both like the UAP and now into the ancient civilizations, how has that um aided to or taken away from any sort of existential why are we here? Why am I here? H how has it affected it? >> I think if if anything it's just compounded that stress even more, you know, like in terms of like going off and trying to find answers to these big existential questions. I just feel like I've got more questions. I've got really good questions, better questions than I had five years ago, but they're still just questions and like the lack of clarity is real in all of these subjects, you know. But one of the things that I think is really refreshing with ancient history specifically, especially from coming off of like, you know, UFO research. There are some very interesting UFO stories and there are some very interesting, you know, people within that subject that should be listened to, but it's very anecdotal. Whereas with the ancient history, you can go to these places, which has been so refreshing. I can go to Egypt. I can go to Peru. I can film the stonework. I can show you that it shouldn't be possible, but here it is. And that's very refreshing with the ancient history stuff. So, it's been really nice kind of getting into that as well. And um yeah, I think that's actually fueled even more existentialism because it's opened up a whole other corridor of, you know, lost civilizations and were we once like a much grander species that's been destroyed and, you know, are there godlike beings that might return and how would we deal with this? And I mean, how would we deal with this? You think we could deal I don't think we could deal with that very well. >> Well, what do you think about this Atlas thing that's flying through our inner solar system right now? >> Oh, yeah. I mean, what if they're coming back right now? What? How do we know? What do we know? >> And for those who don't know, there's this huge thing flying at us that is not in the trajectory of the Orort cloud, which is our entire existence of everything. It spirals in this very specific way. And there is a thing flying at us from a very different trajectory, which indicates that it's not from our or cloud. >> And the thing is like all of the spooks and spies that I've been talking to for the past four or five years have been going like 2027, 2027. Like things are happening in 2027. It's like how do you know and is it like am I are you lying to me? You're all so many of them are liars like you know they're professional liars and you have to literally like take that into account when you're interacting with a lot of these people. But everyone kept saying 2027 even like two years ago and now there's this weird announcement about this novel object making its way to us and I think they've even said it's ETA about 2027 or something. It's like okay all right like you know what's going on here. Um it's been fun. Like if this is the end it's been fun. It's been real. >> Yeah. I mean, if they're coming from outside the Ort cloud, I don't know if there's anything we can do. I don't I don't know what. And that would be the reason >> if they're coming to our planet at all, there's nothing we can do. We apparently can't do that. They can. So, >> yeah. We're like, >> and sometimes I like to think that, you know, we there's I don't know motive, right, of who's keeping all these secrets from us. and I both have the I to me it's sort of I try and keep a balance there where one they could just be bloodthirsty people that want to rule the world and keep everybody out of high advanced tech but maybe they actually do know something terrible is coming and they're actually doing this benevolently and actually just to shield everybody from all of this stuff coming like it really doesn't help if you just know in 2027 the whole blaze is getting smashed like >> why would you tell why tell everybody ignorance is kind of bliss and that they might be be helping us by not sharing this with us. >> For sure. Like most of the time, I think the the great moments of evil that have been committed on this planet weren't committed by someone who said, "I'm committing an act of evil." They were saying, "I'm doing something for the preservation of XYZ, for the safety of XYZ." And we interpret it as an evil act, but they didn't. Rarely is it ever like a purposeful choice to be like, I'm actually going to be evil. So I think that a lot of the time it is down to even if it's um not the correct way a perception of safeguarding civilization of safeguarding the global macroeconomic order you know like whatever you want to look at it as cuz a lot of this stuff could collapse economies right if we just had these incredible existential crisis level uh subjects dropped on our lap. There's a lot of things that would be impacted by that. And then you know you've got the technology conversation alongside this in terms of energy and propulsion and you know there's a lot of implications in regards to what some of this technology that might be interfacing with our species represents and how far have we come in doing that over the past 50 60 years of classified research and development. So, you know, there's a lot of incentives to keep things like this secret um from like a national security perspective with technology, from a macroeconomics perspective, in terms of global stability, and then just an existential perspective in terms of psychology, right? In terms of human psychology and whether or not we can deal with these types of truths. Um, so yeah, I think that you're probably being safeguarded. I mean, we we certainly do get nanny stated uh by our governments and by our politicians these days. And I think that that probably does extend down into the deep black where it's like, you know, big classified subjects and how do we discuss this with the average Joe. So, um, yeah, I don't think it really comes down to like a group of Illuminati type elites cackling about how they're really getting a run on all of us. I think it's more to do with they probably exist, but not in the sense that people think they exist just in the terms of like Bill Gates has a dream for how he wants the world to be and he thinks it's great and we think he's [ __ ] insane and that's just how it is. But, you know, it's not that he's evil from his perspective. >> That's right. >> But it might as well be. You might as well be, right? Like, you know, for us, >> it's always it's always good versus good. It's never good versus evil. It's always, you know, whatever whatever you define as good. >> I think there's also also like, you know, some of these people who might really have some knowledge. I think it's probably just a case of like, >> you know, we gain a bit of insight from being researchers and what happens, we just get more questions. Like I just said, probably the same for them. It might just be like, I have no idea what we do with this information. Do you know what I mean? Like what do we do? Just keep it locked away. Like no one needs to know this [ __ ] >> What was it like? Uh going along those lines of military, industrial, and you know, uh you just went on Jesse Michaels. How was that? >> Because you got to I think we met at we met at the Cosmic Summit and then I think right after that you were flying to Texas to go to see Jesse meet. >> Yeah. It wasn't originally planned or anything. I just I told him that I was out at the Cosmic Summit and he was like, "Oh, dude, let's let's meet up in Texas and we'll do a podcast." I was like, "Fuck yeah." Like, "Let's do this." So, like, you know, I went out and did a podcast with him. Kurt Meza was there as well, which was awesome. Kurt Med wild, like absolutely wild. >> Um, you know, it's like a gauntlet like going through a podcast with Kurt there. He's just like this incred incredible high energy. But yeah, it was cool. Jesse's an awesome guy. I mean, I've known him for a few years. I interviewed him. I think he was like my hundth episode from like a few years back. So, I've known Jesse for a while and and he's crushing it. I mean, he's crushing it with the Peru documentary he's put out. Peruvian mummies. I think that's amazing. Um, like I said, I'm going to go out to Peru soon. I'm not sure if I'll have an opportunity to see those mummies. I hope so. Maybe if I can, but um I'm going out for different reasons really. But yeah, like uh that was a cool experience. And then Kurt Meza takes this British kid out shooting for the first time in his life. You know, I'd never been out shooting before. And my first experience is in in Texas with Kurt Mezer. Are you kidding me? Oh, what did you shoot? Do you remember? Do you remember what you shoot? What you shot? >> Yeah, we shot like we shot like an AR-15, a Glock, like a couple of Glocks that he had. Like nothing too crazy, but like dude, like I mean like I'm I'm sure so many Americans are probably going to laugh at this from like me saying it, but just from the perspective of a guy that's never actually like gone to a gun range. I was not expecting the reverberation in your chest cavity when you actually walk through those blast doors into the gun range. Like this dude was like racking some 12 gauge shotgun and it was just hitting my chest, Cavie. I was like, "Dude, my adrenaline's up already. I haven't even fired a shot." Like it was a really quite intense experience. I loved it. I really enjoyed it. >> Did it make you want to get a firearm afterwards? >> [ __ ] yeah, dude. Like I live in England. Like you think I can get a firearm, I can barely even get like a packet of Harry bow. >> Oh man, I'm from Indiana. If if you ever stop by the Midwest, we just stand behind each other with these little clay throwers and throw clays and try to put like curve balls on them and stuff and just shoot them with like what whatever gauge shotgun you've got. I I just inherited actually a double barrel 10 gauge. It's got two triggers. >> It's going to be like I mean it definitely like there's definitely just something about having like that access to firearms in America. Like when I'm out there and I like I meet up with my friends, I just come back to this country. It's just like so weird. like we've just been so pacified in this country and we just think that that's normal. But I'm starting to feel like, you know, I I used to I used to have like a real problem with like the the the gun the gun laws in America. I think that there's obviously a ton of problems with it. Obviously the the school shootings, the things that go down, but having the ability to protect yourself at that level as an independent person living just as a human being, I do feel like that's a right. I feel like that's a right that everyone should have. And it's pretty incredible that they've taken that away from people, especially in like this country. I mean, they recently banned like ninja swords. Like basically, you can't get anything in the UK. Can't get anything. You can't use tasers. You can't use pepper spray as self-defense. If I used a baseball bat on a home invader, there's a good chance I'm going to jail. >> Whoa. Yeah. In your own house. Yeah. >> Yeah. for like, you know, grievous bodily harm or like un unlawful amount of harm if you lost control and like protected yourself. >> Castle law. You guys don't have any castle laws where like you're the king of your castle and you defend yourself. >> No, no, no, no. Like really not. And like especially right now, like we have very we you you just don't know what's going to go down. And this is very recent phenomena in the past few years postco and it really started to creep up in the last couple of years just the intense amount of management of social media and what you can and can't say and how quickly the police will end up knocking on your door for Twitter posts and Facebook posts and like this is a really new phenomena and it's not good. >> Yeah. I was going to ask if that was real because I've seen some of those come up where guys are going to jail for like 20 months for like a tweet they did. It's real. It's happening. >> Yeah. But then people who go around and abuse young girls get like six months of uh you know like community service or something and then someone who's complaining about that on Facebook who's 60 and harmless gets two years in prison. It's happening. It's happening. I mean it's not happening maybe at the scale that's being hyped up in America, but it's happening. And like you know I'm feeling it like with the subjects that I touch on even some of those like you know you get into like the Epstein stuff and like things that start to like tip the scale a bit. I'm like, am I gonna get a knock on the door? Like, this is how we live in the UK now. This is crazy. >> Have you had any >> run, you know, across the seas, our colonial cousins are feeling freer than ever. >> Well, and it's true cuz with firearms, I mean, even out in if you're in the west coast of America. I mean, there's so much rural pl there's it's so rural that like uh you know, my parents had a house in Colorado and I'd go out there and and you actually carried around a firearm because there were bears around and there were just you Yeah. you would you were you were not smart if you didn't carry around a firearm when you went out into the into the national forests and stuff because it was just not not safe. And so it is kind of strange that they're taking away the the tools to defend yourself. It's kind of a funny thing that that's going through. Does Does it ever make you >> Does it ever make you consider moving out? >> I mean, yeah, but it's just I mean, it's just money, isn't it? I'm I'm like in the beginning of my internet career. I'm not rolling in cash, so it's not like I can just up and move out to America. But if I suddenly got a windfall of cash, it' probably be tempting. I'm not going to lie. I don't want to live here. Like, I don't want to live here permanently. It's the weather is terrible and like, you know, the people are miserable and the government's very corrupt and uh, you know, freedom of speech is starting to get eroded away. And maybe that will change because of the way in which things have changed in your country and we're trying to at least be friendly on a geopolitical level between ourselves. Uh, who knows? But it's not great in the UK right now. And especially because I do get to do a lot of traveling. You see a lot of different perspectives and you come back and you're like, man, like it's not it's not great here. >> So you But you haven't been to jail yet. >> Not yet. >> So would you would you like to talk about FC then? Let's go, man. >> Yeah. Yeah. No, >> that's that's a whole bag of worms though, right? >> I'll talk about whatever you guys want to talk about. >> Well, what do you think about FC? So, I mean, I I've seen you put some stuff out on it. You're as up to date as anyone that that I follow. >> I mean, it's just I mean, what like it it's a real problem for the Trump administration. The way they fumbled this one, right? I mean, holy [ __ ] It's not good. This was one of the big running points of like taking down the deep state, taking the draining the swamp, and this is a big part of that. And these binders that were given to journalists and the whole phase one of the like this whole thing was cringy. It was honestly it felt like it was something that had been run by Camela Harris. Do you know what I mean? It was like these like we've got the Epstein binder. It's phase one. It's phase one. >> I can't wait for phase two. And it's just like what the [ __ ] Like this is terrible. And then it just went nowhere. And now he's completely 90 degree turned on the whole thing and he's just saying, "Oh, it's a Democrat hoax. It's not good, man." Like I I know for a for a fact that that guy didn't kill himself. We all do. Like it's obvious. Then you had the footage that Patel was, you know, hyping up on the Joe Rogan. You're going to see the video. You're going to see what the video with one minute missing that doesn't even show his cell door. Like what the what's going on? Like it's so clear and I I put a post on X saying this like it it feels at this point that it's so obvious like the lie is so obvious that they're not doing it. They're not lying for us. They know they they know we know. They're lying for the clients. It's just a It's just a straight declaration out there in the wind of going, "We will protect you. We'll lie to the public. We know we know that they know. Doesn't matter. We'll we'll still protect you." That's how it feels to me. It just feels like the client list who is so powerful, whoever this person is, you know, like the people involved, the the the intelligence community connections involved. I mean, you know, Mossad is involved in this and it it just gets so deep into the rabbit hole of things that are happening right now geopolitically as well. I think it's a really good way to get yourself killed if you want to go really deep down onto this particular thread. You know, I've seen people lose their minds over this stuff and I think there's a reality to it. You know, you tug deep enough on the Epstein stuff, you start getting into the occult, into the satanic ritual abuse, into the sacrificial stuff, into adrenochrome. And, you know, they did a really, really, really good job of making that all seem stupid with Pizzagate and and things like that. They made a really good job of making it all seem like you shouldn't pay attention. But you know the uncomfortable thing is when you do pay attention there is just so much evidence for like this really really dark blackmail element and trafficking element of the uh elites. It just seems to be the bread and butter of how they stay in control. I've got something on you, you've got something on me. We all stay friends, right? Because it's like mutually assured destruction. I go down, you go down. >> And it's almost like, you know, there's pros and cons to every uh governmental structure. And so because we're a democratic republic, you can kind of bury stuff very easily because the system's designed to move so slow versus you look at someone like China and you know because they're vertically controlled and integrated by essentially a dictator >> you know that also has its problems but it doesn't have this kind of problem where if the dictator wants to do something he's like let's do this and that's why you see China doing so much in solar right now just crushing us in energy production crushing us in autonomous electric vehicles like those are all just mandates from the top and they're just bypassing all regulation. I'm not saying that's necessarily the better way to be, but I think they're leveraging a democratic republic sort of process and going let's just wait because it moves so slow and everybody can clog up the system and we all kind of respect that because that's our rule of law. And so it's it's a negative side of being this so free of a democracy with so many people that you can easily bury stuff and and no one has recourse. Like I agree with what you're saying and I'm sitting here going, what can we do? like we have to oh I have to go get like a hundred people elected to the Senate to then like introduce a bill to then like like like the process to for me to do something as an individual is so impossible. >> I think I think it's so it's so rigidly fused into the it is the system like the corruption are the system like you can't actually remove it without the whole system just collapsing down. So I think the next step now in terms of like well how do you change this or like you know how could anyone make any meaningful change it'll be AI. I think AI is going to end up running so much [ __ ] within 10 years time. Uh we may not have many government bodies making decisions. It might just be autonomous AI decision- making. Um I think we're going in that direction. >> It might be better. I mean AI might be smarter than us hopefully. >> I mean it will be smarter than us. It's just whether or not we'll be better off for it. You know what I mean? It's like, who knows? It might be a bit dystopian. >> Yeah. >> Yeah. From a couple of the lawyer friends that I know, it's amazing. Like, you're the one of the first lessons you're taught in law school is if you have a good case, stick to the facts. And if you don't have a good case, attack the character. >> And so, that's it. That's your strategy. They tell you, I mean, if you are if you're on the losing side of a court case, the whole point is to just muck it up. And so, like, knowing that that's the that's like their first lesson they teach you in law school. You're like, "Oh, no wonder the system is cluji." It's not like we're all trying to get what's right to be what's right and what's wrong to be what's wrong. >> It's rigged from the start with this whole competitive >> just trying to win. Yeah. Exactly. And that competitive kind of like hyena mindset is going to create a very aggressive society and that's what we live in. So, you know, it's obvious really and you know, people kind of roll their eyes. I mean, like I'd probably get called woke for this even though I'm not woke, but it's a very maledominated ego society that we live in. very competitive, very territorial, very kind of like ooh our chest beating [ __ ] right? We need to get past that. We do need an injection of the divine feminine. It's just it's not coming through the rainbow cult. >> I know the problem is I totally agree, but the problem is is it's the prisoner's dilemma. It's basically because if 98% of us agree to do that, but 2% of us agree that they're going to be psychopathic, take greedy, take what they can get, they'll they'll run the society because the 98% of us not trying to do that will will not be able to do anything. So it's like without whole holistic adoption of it or some way to police that that it's always the benefit the win always goes to the aggressor. So aggression, >> that's why that's why it feels like it's got to just be AI that is able to find some form of solution because this just seems to be baked into the human blueprint of civilizations. I mean, anyone who becomes the chieftain then has power, right? And usually the person who craves to be the chieftain is not someone who should be the chieftain, but then they end up becoming them anyway because of their ability to, you know, convince and and corral the crowd. And that's just been from time of memoriam. So we've always chosen relatively predatory people as our leaders because they're the ones that actually thirst for the power and like you know want to make those decisions for everyone else. Um so it's almost like it's a rock in a hard place like you you kind of baked it into the equation of creating a civilization and then maybe like the glass ceiling of that is creating a better intelligence than yourself which will be AI. Right. One, one of my hopes for humanity is a lot of times it seems like it's someone in the warrior class who rises up to challenge whoever's running things a muck. And we have a lot of these guys coming out of the military right now in the UAP disclosure movement. And that's I I always kind of expected like it should come from the warriors because the warriors are the ones who have gone and like stared death right in the face. And and so they're not worried about whatever outcomes are. They just know that they need to follow procedure and do what needs to get done. And right now we need to have disclosure. It feels like do you think there's a chance we actually do get disclosure like the like everybody can come around and kind of say okay there is actually a ton of mounting evidence. I think you've done a great job. Jesse Michael's done a great job. People have been documenting it. Like when do we finally just nod and be like yes this is real and how do we formalize studying it? To be honest, I think that's already happened in terms of like most people would just kind of acknowledge it's probably real and we have tons of scientific think tanks that are now active because of the coverage from 2017 onwards in terms of like creating uh you know NOS's and and think tanks that are trying to uh use sensor fusion and analytics in AI to find and categorize these things. Like we're kind of there. We're kind of getting there. I don't know what like cuz disclosure is a weird one, right? What does disclosure mean? Like everyone's like when do we get disclosure? I was like what what does that mean exactly? Because I guarantee you most people won't believe it if the government rolls out a body like just the governments of the world especially in the west have sacrificed their ability to be trusted at this point by most people and I think for a good reason. And so I think at this point you've got such a disillusioned generation like Gen Z and Gen X Tik Tok culture. They're so disillusioned from the government. I don't think you really could convince people that you're doing like, "Oh, this is real." Like, "Bullshit. Well, what's going on in Israel that you're not telling us about?" But, you know what I mean? It would just be like, "This is a boring. Don't believe it. This is just some [ __ ] because they didn't release the Epstein files or that's how our world is now. No one believes anything. No one trusts anything." And especially with like AI generated content, no one trusts anything. And for good reason, because there's so much stuff out there that looks real and it's not real. You know, I've had I've had my own voice created in AI. Someone created my voice in AI and said that I was shutting down my channel. Like like I I got an email from someone saying, "Is it true you're shutting down your channel?" I was like, "No." And they were like, "Dude, you need to look at this link on X." And they sent me this link and it was just a video like audio only of my voice, 100% my voice saying, "Hey guys, I'm shutting down Project Unity." And I was just like, "Dude, what the fuck?" Someone had obviously like data scraped my interviews and fed it into like 11 Labs cloning and like voice cloned me and like you can get someone to say anything now. anything. Yeah. And so we're in a really dangerous time and it means that no one believes anything. So when it comes to like official sanctioned government disclosure, I think that we're probably too far gone in terms of trusting the government to have any sort of meaningful consensus on oh okay this is what we know now because even if they revealed that it'd be like oh yeah but you've already been out to zeta reticuli or like you've already done that we know you've already been out to xyz or so it's a neverending ball of like you know what what what is what does disclosure really mean but in terms of the acknowledgement of other intelligences in our world or other intelligences in the universe. I think we're pretty much almost there. I mean, like, you know, most people in my family who aren't really into these subjects would go like, "Oh, well, I mean, based on everything we've seen, it seems that there's something in our skies and there's something going on and the average person is more open to it." So, yeah, like the disclosure with a capital D, like you know, everyone international news, cit citizens of the world, like that's not going to happen ever. Ever. >> Yeah. They're not they're not going to roll a Nordic onto CNN. >> Okay. >> It ain't going to happen. Like the only thing that would radically increase I think disclosure especially in technology like in terms of energy and propulsion is war unfortunately. It's the only thing that will like predicate the need to bring out a next generation platform that is completely insane. If China does it, if Russia does it, then America will just kick the dust off of the TR3B, right? And be like, "Right, get out there. Show the Americans that we've actually had this since 1964." And it's like, "Oh my god." But until that time, until there's like a genuine national security incentive behind revealing this stuff to the world, I think that they probably use a lot of the very classified, very novel, what we would think of as alien technology for, you know, surveillance and like very low kind of um uh like you know, very black ops type of stuff like in in regards like they don't want anyone to know they have this stuff. But yeah, war. I think war would bring out that technology faster than anything else, unfortunately for the human species. >> Do you think they've been integrating some of the technology they found on recovered craft like Philip Corso said in his book? >> Yeah, it's really interesting. I was meant to meet his son a number of years ago actually, like when I was out in Florida, but it never never fully went through. Um, but I I've always found it very interesting the whole Corso. I mean he's a very highly accredited uh guy in the in the US Air Force and what he was he was a colonel right retired as a colonel um you know no joke guy and uh I think we have to take a level of what he's saying seriously that they have been using um reverse engineering techniques to start to integrate these things into society very slowly and very slow drip and very subtly. Um this wouldn't shock me whatsoever. I I I don't know. I I can't say I I know this to be true, but I've read the books and I I'm aware of Corso's story in depth. And yeah, I think that there's, you know, we should take it seriously. At least we should take it seriously and not just disregard it. >> That's interesting. Yeah. His son his son was big in the aerospace as well. I mean, even his son went on to design airplanes. I think it it's kind of like >> Yeah. >> Yeah. Super legitimate stories. Is there anyone is there like a smoking gun in the UFO space that where there's a person like Corso or like Bobby Ray Inman? I know that you interviewed somebody that uh they've said something where you just you're certain that they have alien tech. Uh I mean not in terms of like anyone who's explicitly stated to me that I've had some interesting um offrecord statements given to me by people who have been in like Loheed Martin in the aerospace world who confident and again you really have to be careful with these statements. You really do. Um because especially when you're operating with even like a little bit of influence and you've got a public platform and you're someone who is now an interface into the public. Um, I noticed as I was kind of coming up in in this field that it became very easy to connect with these intelligence officers and people in the national security world and they were actually very easy to talk to and you just have to be cautious because I think a lot of noise is being generated around this subject on purpose. It's been done for decades since pretty much the 1940s when UFO conferences started becoming a thing. And they would inject narratives into these conferences and they have done ever since. And I think there's a lot of reasons strategically and you know national security reasons for wanting to create as much uh kind of disruption and disillusionment and noise within this subject as possible. And so I take it with a pinch of salt. But I mean I've been you know told by people in the aerospace world that they can design craft that can go 200 times the speed of light. Um you know people in in like tier tier one contractors like top contractor um places. And you know you don't know if that's true or not. You just have to take it as a story. I've said this before that the UFO subject is essentially campfire stories and then campfire stories with TSSCI clearances attached to them. And you just have to decide which ones you like and which ones you trust and which ones feel like they they resonate with background research that you've already done. Um but yeah, I mean like one thing that I did find interesting was when I spoke to Admiral Bobby Ray Inman, uh who is just like the highest level guy I've ever spoken to in my life. He ran several US intelligence agencies. He ran like the Western world, didn't he? Yeah, like he's pretty high up there. Um, you know, like he he was deputy director CIA, he ran NSA, he ran Nuro, the National Underwater Reconnaissance Office that barely exists. Uh, he was like in the deputy he was like director board of directors for science applications international corporation, SI sic, a whole bunch of things. Um, you know, really really like top tier uh national security spook operator type guy. And um he said multiple times in my conversation with him um that he's highly confident that there is no um living life in our galaxy. No living life in our galaxy. Like three or four times he said this during my interview. And I I think at the time I was so kind of like oh my god I'm speaking to Admiral Bobby Raymond and he might tell me something that's completely crazy that I wasn't focusing enough to dig down on that. And I'm like I look back on that interview like I really wish I'd ch like said what do you mean by like life in the galaxy? How could you know about life in the galaxy cuz I I thought first of all maybe he just meant solar system but he said it multiple times. He said I'm highly confident. And then in some email exchanges afterwards, he said to me something along the lines of, "I'm quite confident that I haven't given you what you were hoping for, but I hope that you listen very carefully to what I had to say." And I was just like, "Okay." And so I think about this whole we I'm highly confident that there is no living life in our galaxy. Is he talking about AI? Is he saying that they've only found evidence of artificial life, artificial intelligence, inorganic intelligence? Or are they saying we've only found evidence of previous life, desolated civilizations, leftover structures, like what something? And he said it multiple times. He wouldn't budge an inch on anything he knew. And when I challenged him on Bob Xler, who was a NASA mission specialist who knew Admiral Bobby Rayman and there's a recorded conversation of them where Admiral Rayan says to him that he's not sure if the recovered vehicles would ever be revealed outside of military circles, but maybe as times evolving and people are becoming more open on it. It's a possibility. and he wasn't ready for me to know about that recording when we got on the interview cuz I did ask him about that. His body language tightened up very quickly and he was just like, "No, absolutely no UFOs." No, none whatsoever. Um, you know, highly confident in that. But Bob Exler on multiple occasions has said even on the mainstream media, "Well, Admiral Bobby Ray Inman convinced me that these were uh, you know, vehicles from another intelligence, another planet, and that's good enough for me." and he said that on like GBN news in Britain back in like I want to say like the 80s or early 90s. So, you know, I think in terms of like the highest level person I've spoken to who potentially has the most information in relation to this kind of subject, Admiral Bobby Ray Initman. I mean, you know, I've got people in my world of friends who are in the intelligence world who were like, "Dude, if there's a Majestic 12, that guy is on Majestic 12 100%. He's he he fit and he's of the age to be in the legacy programs. The dude is like 92 years old. >> He's seen the whole thing. Pretty much the whole >> Yeah, man. He He would have been like sitting down with someone like that is eerie to be honest. You're just like really aware of like the level of of power that that person maybe still has, but certainly did have at one point. Do you think that the that level of power with that technology if it is floating around human uh in human hands do you think it's mostly in institutions like CIA or do you think it's broken off like you know Paul Shatskin when he talks about Thomas Townson Brown he talks about the Caroline group do you think it could be like sort of a rogue group like that do you think most of it is in institutions? No, I I think it probably did split off at some point. I think Eisenhower was losing control over the military-industrial complex and I think it was around that time period. I think he was probably the last president to have a really good understanding of what was happening in the black projects and at this point they split off and you know these in these uh these aerospace companies I think started to get a lot more involved outside of just the official military programs of the US Air Force. And so I think that there was a splinter at a certain point during like the you know the height of the cold war. There may have been collaboration but I think that there was absolutely a splintering off at a certain point where it went out of just the US Air Force into Lockheed, Rathon, Boeing, you know, these different groups have their own skunk works, their own ghost works and things like that. And um yeah, I think that there's probably again like it gets into the macroeconomics. It's not just national security. It's the idea that our entire global system of gas and fossil fuels and oil would be highly disrupted by any sort of novel energy generation, any sort of free energy, any sort of electrogravitic system that taps into fundamental fields and forces. Like this is stuff that I think I'm really really think maybe even 20 30 years ago in terms of fledgling technology, but we've certainly got there to a certain degree with like positive lift, field induced lift. Um whether or not we've cracked free energy in the sense that people think I don't know but we certainly I think have uh propulsion that's completely antithetical to what we understand as conventional propulsion. And so again the alien narrative is a great smoke screen for that right because you can fly your classified platforms around and if someone sees it it's alien. And that I is one of the suspicions I have with this narrative that's been happening since 2017 because a lot of it is about bolstering the perception that there is no way that this is human. You know, no no no no blue or red force has this. The Russians don't have it. We don't have it. Uh wow, what a mystery. You're right, guys. It is time to start paying attention to the tic tacs and oh geez, what are these things? Like no, that is a scop. That in my opinion is a big old scop. They're trying to put it under the whole blanket of an unknown because they have these platforms. And I mean, even the Tic Tac, like I think the Tic Tac could potentially be like people are saying this like novel aerogel um you know extremely light aircraft that's using transmission and electromagnetic transmission to essentially be remote controlled. And I think that there's a chance that we do actually have tic-tac technology. Um, I think that the 2017 narrative and the New York Times and all of this institutional stuff has been very curated and not necessarily with the truth in mind. >> Yeah. It really lends to what you we were just talking about 20 minutes ago where even if they're going to tell us, the first thing on a lot of people's minds is ah, this isn't true. Like what's the other, oh, now you're finally saying it? Well, that must mean this other thing is true. And I agree with you. It's it's very hard to trust the institutions and even like you said with the military-industrial complex >> laws and rules are just abstractions that we layer on top of society. And so if you're this private company and you've discovered Cold Fusion or Electrovidics like the obligation to now go tell Uncle Sam and go here's the money you paid us all this money now we're going to hand this over to you. I mean at that point in the game it goes out the window. You go we don't have to tell them anything. We we're sorry, we spent all this money and we didn't discover anything. Sorry, guys. And and that would seem to be the actual more rational decision >> for a rational player in that situation is, oh, let's let's keep this for ourselves. It's too much. >> And I think I think that you you know, you're probably dealing with 99% of government doesn't know jack about any of this. You know what I mean? And like you you know if you're if you are dealing with a splinter group I think there are probably connections into the deepest labyrinth of government like you know like USF or special access USA programs and DOE USAP programs and then there'll be these little offshoots where Rathon and Lockheed and these places click in and they share and they collaborate. Um but I don't think they have any regard for American rule of law or any rule of law of a government. And um you could look at it as a breakaway civilization. I don't know if civilization is the right way to put it, but breakaway group of some form that is >> quasi connected into government through certain liaison, but is certainly not beholden to them. Certainly not. And and you know, probably thinks they're above them because they've got a strategic technological advantage. And um you know, there there are some uh that would say including an individual again, you know, got to be careful, pinch of salt, someone from the Intel community who was like, this is what I think's going on with the Tic Tac. But, you know, the idea that this was actually a technological readiness test from this kind of dark group, from this splinter group, testing the surface level um, you know, like naval capabilities and sensor capabilities against an exotic platform like this because in that particular Nimmit scenario, there were no arms on board. Everyone was in a practice scenario, right? So, there was no ordinance. There was no possibility of a of a live fire. So they could actually test how the surface level um naval fleet in its like most apex form because it was doing a huge training exercise. So it had all of its most impressive, you know, um platforms and everything was being put in a high-tech degree and they were able to potentially test how the response time to being, you know, in the airspace with this tic tac. And then you had the ununiformed, unnamed officers that entered onto these ships. This was reported very early on and then it just kind of vanished away. But early on there were members of the Nimttz uh crew or it might have been the other USS I can't remember which one it was um that reported that these plain clothed officers came on board and confiscated all the radar bricks took away the radar bricks that were tracking the tic tac and just left. And so it it makes me wonder if there was actually some level of like a deeper technological readiness test and that the tic tac was being pitched against the conventional forces unarmed so that it couldn't be accidentally shot down just to see how they deal with it or to see how it deals with them. >> Well, and the military is based upon such a need to know basis that for everyone in the military, they just know need to know and that that's they they accept it all the time. There's always rankings and every time it's like not need to know, you just go, "Okay, don't need to know." And that goes all the way up the ranks to where this could happen and guys walk in and they go, "Sorry, you don't need to know. We're taking these." And everybody just goes, "Okay, roger that." And and you know, need to know is very powerful when you have that ingrained in an entire military. >> Yeah. Something that that played a big component. >> Yeah. Because the tic tac was supposed to have known the secret coordinates for this rendev point, right? like like and you know some people want to say like you know like some people invoke like quantum computer it knew the future and I'm kind of invoking more like the dudes had access to the briefing slides like you know what I mean like they knew they knew where the cat point >> we have a double agent >> it was need to know >> it was need to know >> and we don't need to know >> we don't need to know anything but it's been nice >> I I want I want to know I want to know I just don't need to know apparently That's right. It's not a want to know basis, it's a need to know basis. >> Uh Jay, this has been awesome. Thanks for spending some time with us. >> I really appreciate it. Fun. >> Yeah, this is good. We'll do it again if you're open to it. >> Absolutely. Yeah, absolutely, guys. Really enjoyed it. >> Cool, man. Dude, well, thanks a lot. We'll talk to you next time. Appreciate it. >> All right, make it easy. See you.