Ex-CIA Agent John Kiriakou: "Was I the Good Guy?"

the Ukrainians can't defeat the Russians. And he whispered, "Kill them all." There were things that I knew to be illegal that I refused to take part in. Given everything you know now, would you consider your time you at the CIA, would you consider that as see yourself as a good guy or a bad guy knowing everything that you know in the aftermath? Oh, I I see myself as a good guy. you know, even even when I was still a true believer, um I considered myself to be a good guy because because I I went in I went into the organization with my own sort of um ethical bottom line. There were there were things that I knew to be illegal that I refused to to take part in. And even after the 911 attacks when I went to Pakistan, it was all about, you know, carrying out the mission but doing that within the confines of the law. And I honestly truly cannot name another officer who who carried out their Pakistan assignment with that in mind. Yeah. And you have to and I'm not blaming anybody here, right? You have to remember in the immediate aftermath of 911 there was this incredible almost overwhelming desire for revenge and I got it. I wanted revenge too high school staying the same thing. I remember the feeling the emotion everything welled up. I remember it for for it was a prison for a long time. When I was leaving for Pakistan I uh I went into the office a couple of hours few hours before my flight and uh my boss came up to me to wish me well. shook my hand and then he leaned in and he whispered, "Kill them all." And I said I said, "Really, John?" His name was John as well. I said, "Is that where we are already?" And that bothered me the whole flight over. And then, you know, once I stepped into it, I was like, "No, no, no, no. It's not about killing anybody. It's about bringing them to justice." Well, given that that mentality existed at one point in time, I wonder if it still does. And I wonder if you could comment on Biden recently authorizing the use of our weapons over in Ukraine. What do you Right. So Biden authorized the use of uh of attack of rock and rockets and in fact you know we're talking on Tuesday the 19th. Uh those rockets were fired for the first time yesterday. Uh this is a significant upgrade. Um attackums we've used attackums for decades. uh when I was in uh when I was serving in Bahrain for example uh we provided attackums to the to the Bahrainis for possible thank god not uh not necessary use against Iran were Iran to invade. So these are very sophisticated very precise highlevel uh missiles that are going to really worsen the situation. I get theoretically why this decision was made. The idea is if there are going to be peace talks, you want to carry out those talks from a position of as as great a strength as you can muster. Uh this isn't to defeat the Russians. The Ukrainians can't defeat the Russians. Russia is a nuclear power. um God forbid if it comes to that, the Russians will do anything that they need to do to to save themselves, to protect themselves. So, I think that this was a strategic decision, a a very risky one, but a strategic decision to uh put the Ukrainians in the best possible negotiating position they can get to. Do you think that's because when Trump takes office, there will be negotiations? Oh, absolutely. Yes. Okay. Absolutely. Yes. Donald Trump has been very clear and this just this isn't just because Donald Trump, you know, hates Ukraine or hates Ukrainians or loves Russia. Uh there's a very real anti-war populist streak in today's Republican party that we hadn't seen before, right? The Republicans were supposed to be the neocons. It used to be the Democrats that were the the party of peace and that's just no longer the case. So when when Donald Trump says he's going to, you know, end this war on day one, that means he's going to cut off aid to to Ukraine. Just like he said he would he would end the the Middle East uh uh conflict on day one. That mean that meant screwing the Palestinians. So it's I think it's the same idea here. So Biden's trying to get as much done as he can before he's no longer in