#10 The Alien Archives : Mufon's Vault Exposed with Bob Spearing

Once the United States has colonized Mars, how the government of Mars would operate kills other satellites, it's actually free to the public with hundreds of thousands of UFO related newspaper clippings. It's become clear that Congress is interested in UFOs, but they're not really telling us what they're finding. Who are they talking to about it? Why are they scared to talk about it? What's going on? Well, today we talked to someone who's actually been in charge with preparing some of the reports that they've been looking at. Bob Spearing is the head of international investigations for MUON, the world's largest civilian-led UFO research network. He's been in this for decades. So, if if you have questions, he's kind of the guy to go to. You might have seen him on the History Channel. He's he's made himself familiar on the internet. He's not scared to talk about this. And I will warn you, some of the things that he has to say might not help you sleep at night, but it's a real conversation. It's happening in the halls of our own Congress, so we're not afraid to talk about it either. Welcome to the Austin and Matt podcast. So, so Ancient Aliens, uh, Prometheus Productions, uh, came to us probably in 2022, late 22, and they wanted to know, uh, if we'd be interested in ha in them having, uh, us do an entire episode on Mupon with them. and we said sure and they were looking for really good cases and so I'm the director of international investigations of the move. Basically I handle all of the field investigators and all of the cases outside the United States but I'm very fluent with our database. It has 140,000 cases and every year at our symposium which would be in Cincinnati this year in July I present the the top cases of interest from that 140,000 that happened in the past year. So when Prometheus reached out to us, our media director, Ron James, who made the movie uh Accidental Truth, okay, u he said, "Bob, you know, one good cases." I said, "Sure." And they set me up with the producer of Ancient Aliens. And I gave him this case in Pennsylvania where a woman sees a uh a bright light come down uh on her farm and she has a pond in the backyard. And this is about 7 milesi away from the Susuana nuclear plant. We know that UFOs like like nuclear plants. And she sees the light come down, the dogs go crazy. And then everything outside in the middle of the summer in Pennsylvania, which is just full of crickets and, you know, tree frogs chirping, silence. That's called the Oz effect. So you almost feel like you're in a bubble. A lot of people who have UFO encounters, they experience this Oz effect. So the next day, husband goes out and they find that there's this basically it's like a crop circle. It was about two feet two two yards in diameter and it had three circle indent indentations in it. And what they believe is something came down in the yard. Maybe it needed to do some sort of repairs and then took off again. And we ended up uh doing some radiation testing and soil sampling and they found some unusual qualities in the soil. there was some heavy metals in it and basically when the investigator went out he broke out a rash and we were worried that he got radiation sickness or something and what the deal was is that in a lot of UFO incidents uh they have an electromagnetic field around them. This is why people's car headlights dim that that kind of thing. And when you have heavy metals and a residual electromagnetic field, it can cause a toxic reaction in animals and humans. And that's what happened to this guy. He broke out in blisters all over his body. So I tell perm the guy from Prometheus this and goes, "This is a great case." The next thing I know, they have me uh meeting Travis Taylor and Nick Pope at a uh a cafe at 7 o'clock in the morning with the field investigator who broke out in in the rash and we filmed a segment of this uh episode on blueon and I thought I was only going to be in it for like two minutes and it was the main segment of the episode. So I got like 10 minutes worth of screen time on ancient aliens. Uh, so I was very happy about that. Um, and and pretty much I do a lot of Yeah, that's a cool story. And it's amazing how they do the show. Okay. It's like they film you pulling up, they film you driving away, they do it again, they bring the drone in, they want an aerial shot of you pulling into the cafe and and then they um there's a a certain point where they call it nodding and they take shots of you going, "Oh, And it took and then we go out from the cafe. We all meet at the cafe and then we go out to the farm and we meet the family and then you know the whole thing takes place and for uh almost 12 hours we were there and it turned into a 10-minute segment. It's amaz it's but it's amazing how they they put it all together. It's crazy. When they ask you to do the nodding, do you have to be listening to something interesting that makes you nod or do you just sit and start nodding? you just sit and start nodding. Okay. And they'll they'll put the camera on me and I'll be like, you know, and they'll say, "Put your chin up then, you know, and then and then they'll do Nick Pope and then they'll do Travis and Travis Taylor." Um, that guy's just full of stories. He is a brilliant guy. Uh, some of the stuff he tells is scary. And would you just for people who may not know, will you give an overview of what Muon is? And then also to know how you got into Muon. Okay. The Mutual UFO Network has been doing the Air Force's business since 1969. That's our slogan. Um, uh, it started the Midwest UFO Network that came out of APRO, Carell and Jim Lorenzan's, uh, aerial phenomena research organization, which was a big, uh, UFO organization in the 60s and 70s, like uh, like NICAP, uh, Donald Kho and and Nikap. And Mufon was the one that came out surviving. There was also Kufos. That was Heinik's group that's still around, but they just they just archived things. I don't think I know any of the names you just mentioned. Yeah. What time period were all of these like competing and coming into existence and out of existence? 50s to the 70s. 50s to the 70s. Okay. You had like three organizations were emerging. You had Yes. Nikap, Appro, Kufos, and Mufon. All right. And then these are all supposed to be civilian networks. That's the idea. They were all civilian groups. Yeah. and Buffon's the only one left. Uh we have 7,000 members. And what's unique about us, we have a these other groups had databases and those databases still exist, but we have 140,000 cases in ours. The difference between us and all of these other organizations is that we investigate. So we actually uh have about 700 field investigators. they um they take a a course and basically a lot of people who are interested in this kind of stuff have some sort of forensic background. Cops, retired FBI, airline pilots, you know, botonists, geologists, they usually have some sort of skin in the game and they have an interest in UFOs because you can't go to school to learn about UFOs. There's no really credible degree you can get. So, and is this a volunteer network or is there is there volunteer? They don't pay anybody except the executive director. Yeah. Uh everybody's volunteer and it that's been its strength and it also, you know, is its weakness too in a sort of way because a lot of people come and go. All right. When when you have volunteers. Uh so anyway, if you take this test and you pass it, you have to be a member. Memberships start as cheap as six bucks a month and you get a monthly magazine and a twice monthly newsletter and cool, you know. Uh but if you pass they start dishing out cases to you. We have state directors uh in the United States. We have national directors outside the United States and we have field investigators mostly in Canada, England, the United States, Australia and France. But we have people in Asia and and Africa also. And if the the case is in your region, it gets sent to you and it'll have a narrative and sometimes there's photographs and sometimes there's video or drawings. Uh, and we actually have a photo analysis team. Uh, I don't know if you're familiar with Mark De Antonio who's been on plenty of television shows. That's a guy worth interviewing. Mark De Antonio. Um, and we also have a lab in Missouri and we have a lab in Australia. So, when we get trace evidence, if you investigator gets it, we have chain of custody uh forms and then we, you know, send it out to the lab to be analyzed. We had some interesting stuff last year. I can talk about later if you want. So would I be accurate in saying that MUON is a is a is a large group of people who are passionate about extraterrestrial activity and by joining MUON you actually get deal flow in your area as for things to go investigate and that's true. Yeah. Hey here's a crazy thing that just popped up right near you. go on and check it out and go and it it sort of lets people who are who are interested in at least contributing in some way kind of get connected in to a network that lets them know about things in their area if they don't know already know. Yes. And if you live in a state that's a hot spot, they they don't even have enough people to to cover all the cases. Like if you uh What are the hot states? Washington State is probably number one. Uh right close behind it is California. And I think that a lot of that's got to do with the Pacific Ocean and all of the military bases uh on on the West Coast. And then you have um you have Pennsylvania, you have uh Arizona, um New York. Uh where I live in the northeastern part of Pennsylvania, we get a ton ton of cases. And we actually had some peripheral drone activity a couple of weeks ago when when the drone thing was going on. But yeah, basically, you know, yeah, we have memberships. We have PE members that like to investigate cases and we're pretty well known. And how did you get into it? What's your story? How did you find Muon? It's a long story. I'm 65 years old, but back in no on November 9th, 1965, I was six and we had the great northeastern blackout and the whole East Coast from Quebec down to Virginia just was, you know, I we lived in Jersey City and we could see the New York skyline out our our apartment window and it was just a dark silhouette of the skyline. It was crazy. The next day, my uncle comes over saying they saw UFOs over the Clay Power Station at Niagara Falls, and they believe that's what took out the the the power station. And as a you know, today we know that there were seven UFO reports that night, including from pilots that saw stuff near that power station. I'm hooked. I stopped buying the UFO magazines, the Gold Key comic books, Saga magazine in the 70s. Uh Chariots of the Gods came out when I was in fifth grade. And I, you know, I was off and running. In ' 86, I uh I was camping up in Round Valley Reservoir, uh in New Jersey, very remote part of New Jersey. Some people say it's it's a haunted lake, and it's I'm sitting on an o overturn canoe on a beach one night, drinking beer with my buddy. We got ponchos on. It's the the cloud cover is really low and we're looking out at the lake and we just see this pink star coming at us very slowly. We're go can't be a star cuz it's under the the cloud cover and all of a sudden it just drops does a semicircle. All right. We look at each other and go, "Holy was that?" Years later, I find out that it's a phenomenon called the orange orb phenomenon. It's different than say paranormal sedentary orbs. there's something to it uh physically and a guy wrote a book on it. This guy Terry Ray who was a Pennsylvania muon field investigator. It was called the complete story of the worldwide invasion of orange orbs. I went my god other people have seen this thing that I saw at little did I realize people have been seeing orbs for thousands of years. I have a I have a collection of newspaper articles that span three centuries of people seeing orbs and there's three theories about orbs. One is that um it may be some sort of natural phenomenon like ball lightning. Uh other people think that it's possibly some sort of intelligence um or a life formic to earth that's plasmabased that we don't understand yet. And uh if you know who uh uh what's his name? Row I for Nardap. They investigate near collisions of planes with uh Ted row uh with objects in the air. Uh he believes that these are uh craft uh spherical craft enveloped in a plasma. Why? Because plasma absorbs radar signals. So sometimes they'll be right outside of a plane pacing it and the pilot will look at his uh TCAS anti-colision radar and there's nothing on the radar even though there's something just driving alongside of him at 35,000 ft. So there's three theories about what orbs are. Anyway, that's about 2013. I go to a convention just to meet this guy to talk to him to tell him my story and he tells me you should join Muon. You've got that forensic back. And that's I joined MUON and I started out as a field investigator. My background is in um uh I was a real traffic controller. I was a locomotive engineer. I was a safety investigator. Um and I I had pretty much the the background to do it. I also took film production and journalism uh at Form University uh when I went to college. So because I had all this this transportation facility management experience, I I moved up pretty quickly in in Mufon uh and now I'm the director of international investigations. We have like four functional directors, an executive director, and then a board of directors. Uh and that's the the function uh the hierarchy of fun and everybody else is state directors and and field investigators. Does Forom University count you as one of their star alumni gi given the amount of star time that you've had now? Just out of curiosity. Um, yeah. You know, I'm really not tight with with boredom. I'm I'm more tight with my high school St. Peters Prep in Jersey City. Uh, and and pretty much all my grammar school friends like that I haven't seen in 30 years. I'll get a text from somebody in the last going, I just saw you on Ancient Aliens. All right. So, uh, it it goes to show you a lot of people watch UFO programs. Yeah. Yeah. Have you been have have you been around or what what's the what's the uh what's the tea on um all the Jersey drones going on right now or were going on, you know, what's happening with those since it's near you. Um there's a lot of theories. I mean, they were coming out, you know, one a week. Uh the first one was that uh when this was going on, there was a shipment of medical radiological material that was robbed from a truck in in New Jersey. And so the first theory was that these might be what you call Nest drones. Uh they're operated by the Department of Energy. Uh they're called nuclear emergency situation team drones, something like that. And they, if you ever saw the movie with Clooney and uh Nicole Kidman, I think it was called Peacemaker 20 years ago, the helicopters, they're looking for that dirty bomb and they've got these like scopes and, you know, monitors looking for radiation signatures on the ground. That was the first one. The second one was that it was Iranians or Chinese launching these things from uh submarines or mother ships out in the Atlantic because a lot of people see them come in from the ocean in the Tom's River uh Wildwood, New Jersey area near Fort Dicks, Magguire Fort Dicks. Uh so that was the other theory. uh that guy Shelonburgger who uh did the last congressional hearings, he actually called me and he wanted to know if I thought they might be what you call mimic drones that aren't actually drones but some sort of extraterrestrial uh presence masking itself. And I told them, I don't I don't know about that, but you know, that's a theory. Uh and then there was also um there was legislation up uh where they wanted to give the FAA more power over drones uh in the uh in the airspace of the United States and that maybe this was a ploy to actually make people get scared so that it would be easier to pass this bill that would actually restrict airspace even more. I mean, there's a there's a bunch of theories, but then the the orbs started showing up. And that's when my ears perked up. I says, "Well, it's not only drones now. It's it's orbs." And these drones, and I saw one, we had one here that that week everything was peeking. It there was a rather large object um up here in the Poconos, and it had the red and green, you know, FAA positioning lights, but they were extremely bright and they were blinking. And I never saw that before my entire life. So I thought that whatever this thing was that I was watching in the sky have some sort of uh unusual qualities about it. So uh you know I don't know the orbs I I told you you know they could be plasmabased uh plasma enveloped craft. And if that's the case that's pretty scary because we're only developing that technology now. the Chinese Air Force and the United States Air Force are independently uh playing with shooting plasma fields in front of like F-35. So if they were going into Iran to take out a you know target and Iran's got a a radar and a missile, you know, groundto-air missile waiting to take out the F-35. The radar won't see it, but we don't have the ability yet to envelop the entire F-35 fighter jet. But somebody apparently knows that technology now and they've known it for quite some time. Whoa. So the plasma you're saying it's kind of like the F-17 where it's like really it's better though. It's an advanced version of radar like muffling basically where you you capture the radar waves and you don't let them bounce back. You're saying the plasma can sort of capture the waves and then it won't it won't bounce back. It's the radar dishes. Right. So yeah, the the F F17 it's it's the paint and it's the angles to make it have a very small signature whereas the plasma basically eliminates the signature altogether. Right. Yeah. Have you do you follow Chris Bledsoe at all? And have you read his book around and all the orbs that fly around him? Does he ring a bell? No. Three three four weeks ago when New Paradigm Dan Sheen they had a big panel on the drones. I was part of it with Richard Dolan, Dan Sheen, uh, and Chris Bledsoe. And that was actually the first time I actually spoke to him. Very sincere guy, like sort of like a Woodsmany type guy. All right. But I I I was amazed that this guy had so many encounters in his life. It's it's it's astonishing. But I I really hadn't followed him till till that day. I just saw or I read his book. It came out a few months ago. It's called uh what ali ali uh what was it? UFO from God. UFO of God and he's been seeing him his whole life basically. They follow him around actually where he travels. It's it's wild. And he seems to think that it's a spiritual phenomenon. Is that common among orbs where people that that seem to be delving into the spiritual they have more encounters or is that just I'd have to say I'd have to say that that that there's um legitimacy to that to that thought. Um, a lot of people who um who submit reports to to MUN are predisposed to to seeing UFOs. Uh, a lot of experiencers uh believe that it's it's it's something, you know, ethereal. It's not necessarily something on our plane of existence. So, you know, I definitely think that there's there's credence to that. A lot of times though, when people take uh pictures of orbs in cemeteries, all right, at night, they're really not orbs. It's uh our photo analysis team will tell you that it's the camera lens focused to infinity and a dark night. It's really just a dust speck floating in front of the camera that's blown up and out of focus. So, it's not even, you know, real. But I I absolutely believe orbs are real because I've seen them. All right? So, you know, how can I deny that they they don't exist? Uh but to answer the question, uh yeah, a lot of people who report things to us, they they do have a spiritual slant and they don't necessarily think it's aliens. As a matter of fact, Muon will never tell you, "Yeah, it's aliens or it's time travelers or it's interdimensionals or it's demonic." All right. We we won't ever go out on that limb. We we just investigate and put the conclusions into database for other researchers. Yes. So, we're we we don't call ourselves the mutual alien network, you know, because the UFO pretty much covers everything and anything. It seems like it's picking up a lot. And I say this from personal experiences. I'll share a couple later on, but is that is that right? Does it feel like all activity is just picking up recently kind of around the world? Yeah, I've been doing this a long time. So, I'll tell you, you got to be careful about that because when people see drones, then everybody in the world sees drones. Okay. And some of it's hysteria. And the other part uh where you have to be careful and this is the practical side of things. For many years, MUFON was the only uh active database. So you would get accurate monthly statistics. Was there more sightings in Washington state? Was there less in Pennsylvania? And you can't do that anymore because there's so many new groups popping up like Arrow. Uh NASA takes reports. There's the pilot group takes reports. And now there's that private corporation called Enigma Labs that take reports. So none of these agencies including Mufon talk to each other. All right. So you can't really get accurate statistics anymore. Never will it get. It's too bifurcated to different places. So is the reason that you have like a $6 uh signup fee for the Muon network. Is it kind of like the same reason that Elon added this checkbox so that he could get rid of bots basically? Is it just to is it just to sort of like say you're serious about reporting something, pay a little bit of money so that it's not just random spam from the internet? Okay. You can you can report a UFO report to mufund.com for free. There's no cost. You just click report a UFO and it takes you through the it takes you through the form and then we'll contact that witness and talk to them. If it's depending on what category case it is, we'll go out take samples if there's some sort of like trace evidence. So that's free. Anybody in the world can report to Muon. We don't charge them anything. If you want to be a member, all right, that's how we support ourselves. Okay? Because we have to have office space. We just over the past uh decade or so, we scanned uh over two terabytes of historical documents so that we could put them up on the internet. All of that costs money. You have to, you know, you have to have a a girl at the office pretty much mailing out a, you know, a muon hat if somebody wants, you know, or, you know, a Christmas tree ornament that says Muon. That's how we sport ourselves. So, for six bucks, uh, you get the electronic version of the magazine. You get, um, if you pay a little more, you can get the paper magazine. I'll show you right here. This is what the paper magazine looks like. Very, very well done uh, publication. All right. Very very sharp. And uh you also get access to the social network. We we have an internal social network uh with about two 2,500 of our members that that talk to each other like on a Facebook type platform. Uh and of course we have the symposium every year uh in Cincinnati and we have you know top level speakers. I wish I could tell you who we have this year in July but I'm not allowed to yet. But we got like three really really big names. Oh, that's awesome. Have you considered uh creating a dating network amongst UFO believers? You know, that's a really interesting idea. I know. I did not think of that, but that's very very interesting idea. I I have this theory that if you could match people based on their on their biggest conspiracy theory that they believe in, then you would probably get good matches. Maybe we look into that. That's a good idea. I like that one. Have you ever concocted like a greatest hits uh like muon, greatest investigations, like photos, stories, things like that? I would love to link to something that was kind of like top five or top 10 cases. Um I do the presentation every year at the at the convention at the symposium, the best five cases of the year. Um and I already have several of them. I'm the guy that goes through we get about 5,000 cases a year. All right. I'm the guy that goes through all 5,000 cases looking for the like five or 10 best and then I present it on stage at the symposium. Um, so the only place you'd actually find something like that would be in our digital library. Uh, we have like Muon television. That's one of our our side products. Uh, it's like an enhanced membership and we have like 800 programs and uh we record all of the symposiums. So, you can go back 10 years and and look at who was speaking about what and you'd see every year the top cases of the year. Uh, I'm guessing I'm guessing you don't want to leak any spoilers about the best cases from this year. Can we hear about last year's best case? Um, yeah, let let me think. Uh, well, uh, let me tell you, one of the cases we've got this year, uh, I just approved it. Uh, somebody took a really really really excellent video of a of a black triangle. All right. And I mean, it's it's stunning. And we're actually going to have our photo analysis team come up on stage and describe, you know, how they figured out, you know, uh, and clarified it and used contrast to bring it out. Uh, so we take a scientific uh, approach to that. Um I can't off top of my head I can't think one last year but the best case we ever had it actually made it to that the proof is out there television show was basically when I was talking to you before about the orbs uh there was a a a FedEx plane going from Mexico City to Tennessee presumably carrying auto parts Ford auto parts and uh the pilot his name was Eric Delgado and he had been a C17 um uh military pilot over Iraq and he had been flying for 25 years for FedEx. His co-pilot was a former F-15 fighter jet pilot and all of a sudden this object comes down on the co-pilot side and starts accompanying them for 33 minutes at 500 mph uh at like 35,000 ft. And this pilot had the wherewithal to shut off the cockpit lights. Most people say, "I was so stunned by what I saw, I forgot to pull out my camera." Okay, this guy pulled out his camera, turned off the cockpit lights, started filming the thing out the window, and then panned it down to his anti-colision radar screen, which showed there was nothing on the screen, but it was clearly 10 ft away from the plane, outside the plane. And um the interesting thing was when it reach if it had been bull lightning a natural phenomenon it probably would have struck the lightning rod on the plane and just dissipated. All right. This thing accompanied it. Okay. And when it reached the United States border at Madam Morris, Mexico uh it made an abrupt uh left turn turned purple which usually is a sign of of of the propulsion system in some UFOs and would not cross the United States border. So the question was, if it was sophisticated enough not to be visible on the TCAST anti-colision radar, did the United States government have something more sophisticated that would have been able to identify it and that's why it made the left turn? And the second question that we always ask is what was really of interest about the FedEx plane if it was only carrying auto parts. So yeah, and why were there such sophisticated I know I I live in Mexico. I know that auto parts is like the biggest export of Mexico. I've had a lot of friends work in that. But I can't imagine XF-15 fighter pilots flying cargo planes for auto parts. That doesn't make sense. Well, when when they when they retire, these pilots in the military, they got to go get a job somewhere. So, they usually go, you know, work for FedEx or something. That's fair. Now, I've I've heard tell that amongst the anti-gravity I I guess things that are flying around, some people can already detect if it's US, if it's Russia, and And I've heard that they're the they're the two predominant leaders in anti-gravity tech right now. I'm not I'm not sure, but I wonder if it would be like a Russian spy spy drone or spy thing. Well, I'll tell you a couple of I'll tell you a couple of stories. All right. Um remember the guy that blew himself up in the Tesla in front of Trump Tower? Yeah. Like two weeks ago. That's another interesting story that's connected to the drones. All right. cuz right before he blew himself up and there's some people um in Muvan that don't think it was him that blew up that he made it to Mexico. Um he sent like a manifesto to a podcaster and essentially what he said was these drones that people are seeing are anti-Gravidic drones and that uh the only two countries in the world that possess this technology uh is the United States and China. All right? and he was trying to expose it. And I'll tell you a connecting story. The new uh like F-17 fighter jet, the Raider it's called. Uh it came in flight was in October. We had been getting people drawing what looked like um uh sort of like a like that with like two cockpit windows triangle. And what we believe these people were drawing were these raiders before they were officially flying. All right? So people were seeing them being tested and they described them as white. When the the Air Force came out and published its first picture of the Raider, it was white. So we sort of know that these UFO witnesses were actually seeing secret American craft being tested. But the interesting thing about that was that all of the witnesses said the same thing that it was silently hovering. All right. So a VTO, a vertical takeoff and landing craft like a Harrier jet that makes a lot of noise cuz it's got these thrusters. All right. So unless you're dampening that somehow and the design shows nothing of the sort on the bottom of these raiders, were they using some sort of anti-gravity technology to hover in place like the supposed drones that this guy was talking about? I absolutely believe that if not the United States, some government on Earth possesses anti-gravity technology for sure. Do you how does that how how do we think that's possible? Like in my mind it feels like our theoretical physicists don't even still know what gravity is. So how do you have a have a piece of technology that has anti-gravity? You know, if at least the smartest people we know of from the smartest universities that are theoretical physicists can't even think of how to do it yet, how do we actually have physical things that can do it? Oh, I think we have people that that have figured out how to do it. Uh Eric Davis, the physicist, um he's a big UFO buff. I mean, he can explain to you how you can go from one end of the universe to the other if you have the right technology. Mikio Cushio that the the Japanese guy, he said, "We're five years. We have the we have the technology on paper that within 5 years we'll be able to execute time travel." And I believe that's that's that's true. Also uh in the 1990s there was a NASA scientist he's deceased now and he was working on anti-gravity uh technology and basically the problem was they had to find anti-gravitons. All right we we know gravitons exist. The only thing stopping us was discovering the the ante gravon and you know who's to say what they're doing at DARPA and Area 51. But you know the stuff they got there is 50 years ahead of what we know. So I think that they've probably solved that problem already. Well, and I think you don't have to know how something works to use it, right? Like I don't know how my computer works, but I but I use it all the time. I think if you were to ever even witness something doing anti-gravity, you could start tinkering until you figure it out. I think that's kind of how humans have advanced. Well, only if only if the creator of that tech did know what it it was doing. So, they either found an an alien craft that has anti-gravity and basically learned how to use it, but they don't know how it works or like like like we may not know how to use our computers, but the person who made it and designed it, the engineer who did it at Apple should know how the switches and everything, you know, I I think they should have a better model in their head. Yeah. But I mean, you could discover and use fire before you understand how fire works. That could just happen. If this is a fundamental force of gravity, we could align some voltage charges up in some way, see some repellent activity, and go, "Well, it works." Like, who knows the math that's that's the correct model for it, but it does work. I don't know. That's that's how I see it. I'd love to know. I'd love to know, wouldn't we all, how gravity works. Well, there there's a long there's a long history of anti-gravity patents and whatnot going back, isn't there, Bob? Yeah. All they they believe that they were experimenting with it as far back as World War II. All right. Um and and I also believe that we we definitely possess uh crash retrievalss. Uh, as a matter of fact, we're working on a case now where in 1968, 1969, they may have had uh a crash retrieval at Norton Air Force Base in in California and that they were trying to communicate with it. I can't tell you how because we're going to present that uh at the symposium, but um uh Leonard Stringfield, if if you're familiar with Leonard Stringfield, he was probably uh Oh, you got to look him up. Leonard Stringfield. Um, they're going to be making a movie on him. He's probably the most famous undersung uh UFO researcher of all time. He operated from the 1950s till I think 1994 when he died. But he um had CIA sources, he had NSA sources, NASA sources, FBI sources. Uh, and he kept diaries. And his diaries went 30 years from the 70s till his death. And they total 65 diaries, 200 pages each, about 12,000 pages. All right. And this guy wrote down everything. And Muon got the diaries. And I'm the head of the team. We have to redact them before we can release them to the public. So we released five so far. Uh this is like a part of a subscription to our digital library. And that's just one thing that you can get. But what do you redact out of them? What do I what what what's being redacted out of them? I'll give you an example. Um the names of the CIA bureau chiefs that he worked with. All right. As a matter of fact, one of them um I redacted it myself. We have these this redacting software. Uh the the the diary says this particular bureau chief said to to Len Strengthfield Lim, if you release this information that I gave you, they'll know it's me. And if they're not afraid to kill Kennedy, they're not afraid to kill a CIA bureau chief. So that's why we have to redact uh a lot of the names out of this. There were people who are actually uh double agents. Is he still alive? I guess some of the agents are still all the names. Yeah. Some some people could still be alive. Yeah. So that's why we're very very careful and we're adapting them very very slowly. Uh but they're fascinating. He was he was the crash retrieval guy and after uh he wrote he wrote two books. His most famous book is called situation red which came out in 78 and then he did seven pretty much studies smaller thinner studies on crash retrievalss and he pretty much lists the most uh prominent ones where they actually may have the material. If you know anything about Roswell, you'll know that right after Roswell, all of a sudden, Kevlar was invented, solid state circuitry was invented, and possibly they were just reverse engineering everything that they got out of that craft. Oh, yeah. And Post-it notes. Yeah. And Tang, right, that the astronauts dried, right? That's right. Why? I I think I'm trying to I have another question about this redaction thing because MUON isn't really a government agency and so why redact anything? Why not? Because it's sort of like who are we saving or what's the what's the purpose of that? Well, with our database, when a witness reports something to us, they are completely anonymous. Nobody will ever know their name unless uh like say if a production company says that's a great case, can we talk to the witness? will reach out to the witness, say, "Do you want to talk to the production company?" And they'll either say yes or no. But also, um, let's say you have, um, you're the daughter of a CIA bureau chief and the CIA bureau chief told Len Stringfield, "Hey, I've got these photographs from this hanger at the Air Force base that showed dead aliens. We don't want, you know, the FBI showing up at daughter's house, pounding on that door, grabbing a photograph." So there's there's numerous reasons why we we have to redact things. Saving your sources basically. Yeah. Okay, that makes sense. All right, fair enough. So, so I think it was Matthew Liveberger who was the guy who blew up the te the Tesla truck. So he had his long name. Yeah. He was trying to say that uh ch these are Chinese spy drones, I guess. And they're just Chinese and American anti-gravity drones. Yeah. And they're flying around basic. They were flying them over our country just to kind of say like, "F you." Like, "We have we have superior tech. That's just what it is. You need to know this." Do you do you remember the story from I think it was like 1952, the UFOs over the White House. Yes. Was that was that similar? What? Like what group would that have been? What? That's that happened over a two week period. What you have to understand about 1952, all right, was there was a wave that year and a lot of these um UFOs were seen over sack bases, strategic air command bases where nukes were were housed. Uh, all right. The other thing is that that was interesting and I wrote an article for out of limits magazine in England on this. They were following Eisenhower. every place that Eisenhower went and he wasn't president at the time, UFOs were showing up. All right, that summer they show up over um over the White House and over the capital. All right, over a twoe period and we couldn't catch them with our best jets. All right. That's the year that the United States That's the year that that Britain um tested its first atomic bomb. And that's the year that the United States tested its first thermonuclear hydrogen bomb. All right? And that's also the year that Eisenhower became uh president. So there's a correlation between Eisenhower nukes and Washington. And I absolutely believe somebody was sending us a message that, hey, we don't want you building these bombs and we know who your president's going to be. Scared. Oh wow. We know who your president's going to be. So may maybe they would either be very good at intuiting or they might be able to jump through spaceime a little bit. That's what time travel is one of my favorite favorite theories about what's going on. Um I've done a lot of research uh throughout history. There are definite examples of time manipulation uh where I actually believe that somebody's actually trying to drive or design our timeline to go a certain way. All right. Um can you give Yeah. Like I'll give you the best I'll give you the I'll give you a banger example. Yeah. Okay. In 570 AD, the king of Yemen had converted to Christianity and he wanted the Meccans, which is now in Saudi Arabia, uh, he wanted them to convert to Christianity. At the time, the Meccans were pagans. All right? And they told him to go screw. And so he says, "Okay, I'm going to raise Mecca to the ground." and the Kabah where the the meteorite that they keep in the black boxes goes, I'm going to wipe it out. So he shows up with his elephants and his sophisticated state-of-the-art army for 570 AD and this rag tag bunch of mechans come out that are going to be slaughtered and all of a sudden the Quran talks about uh the miracle of the elephant and essentially these big black birds come out of nowhere drop pebbles from their mouths on the Yemen army and completely obliterated. And in um Islamic commentaries it says that the Yemen soldiers skin slid off their bodies. Okay, look at that story through technological eyes. Was it birds with pebbles or was it radiation modern 20 or 21st century fighter jets dropping radioactive cluster bombs? What happened in 570 AD a couple of months later? I have no idea. Muhammad was born in Mecca. All right. I feel somebody came from the future to ensure that he would be born. Whoa. Do you believe in Do you believe in free will? I do. You do? Okay. Maybe just with I can't rec I can't reconcile everything. Yeah. I just wa I I've been watching I've been watching um uh what was the movie last week with uh Ethan Hawk? Uh Predestination. It's a time travel movie. Yeah, that's that's a weird movie. All right. Where he's basically the boy and the girl and the the mother of themselves, if you can figure that one out. Wait, so let me get this straight. You're saying it's it's possible. I mean, may maybe, you know, we don't know. But we can't even assign probabilities. But it's at least it's at least somewhat possible that nonzero maybe the US Air Force went back in time and created absolutely I absolutely believe or prot or allowed it to happen. All right. Or allowed it to Yeah. They they cleared someone else out of the way, right? Or maybe it was, you know, the Chinese Air Force, you know, ensuring that it gets done. All right. Yeah, I mean there's more, you know, I don't have it where I could pop it up for you right now, but are you familiar with Nuremberg 1561, the sky battle over Germany? Nuremberg, do you see that picture? A little bit. There's a painting of it, isn't there? It's a painting. Yeah. Uh, you know what? Let me try to pull it up because I want to show you something. If you give me a second here. Yeah, this is a really interesting painting. I would love to I would love to hear your thoughts on it. Let's see if I can I can pull this up. Okay, good. Let me go back to you guys. Let me share screen. There it is. Okay. Can you guys see that? Yes. All right. This happened in April of 16 1561 over Nuremberg, Germany. And the bunkers will try to say that this was just um uh sund dogs, mock suns, you know, from ice crystals in the atmosphere. It was a static natural phenomenon. Okay. And what what happened over the city is these these balls that were black and blue and some glowed orange like orbs. They're coming out of these tubes in the sky. All right. There's also these crosses. And if you look, there's two different types of tubes. There's tubes that look like they have port holes with the orbs coming out of them. And then look up to the upper right hand corner, you'll see that there's another type of cylinder with no windows that seems to have a flap with these Yeah. things coming out of them. Okay. So, picture picture MIG fighter jets going against F-35s. All right. Chinese versus or Russian versus American. It seems that this is similar technology and they're fighting each other. All right. and using orbs. And the orbs uh basically at the end of the sky battle fall to the ground and dissolve. But look to the lower right hand corner and you'll see the smoke billowing. Okay. I don't know how big it is on your screen. It's pretty big on mine. But if you you can zoom in there, it's one of those tubes. One of those tubes has crashed and it looks like there's orbs like um executing a rescue mission. All right. Uh but the most curious thing about the whole photograph is what happens several hours later and they condensed time uh is that later on in the day after this this battle in the sky this big black spear comes flying by. All right. So look at the bottom. All right. When you take the ratio of the front wings and the back wings there is very similar to experimental NASA aircraft from the 1950s. All right, the cuts in the triangle. Uh, I've spoken to two fighter jet pilots and they believe it was the landing flaps and that this thing was actually coming in for landing. What's peculiar is that if it's got front wings and rear wings, it's designed totally to fly in an atmosphere like Earth. Exactly. Using lift. This thing didn't come from Alpha Centuri. this thing was manufactured on Earth and it's probably some sort of fighter jet. So that's the second best example I have that somebody's flying around with a jet in the past that won't be invented for 500 years. I I rarely ever let my mind go to the possibility that they're time traveling and our own history is being tinkered with. But it when you do when you do go down that road, you start to see why they would want to cover it up or you it's a plausible explanation for like, oh yeah, of course we wouldn't want to tell people. We're messing with your past. Yeah, absolutely. And every I live I live like in a pretty rural area. Every time at like 10 o'clock at night I see a car stop in front of my house on the road and then drive away, I get like a little worried, you know? Yeah, I could see that. Are you ever worried about uh disinformation? It seems like organizations like the CIA or you know if there is any truth or validity to the to the government's US government having any of this tech then they would want to actually start planting you know stories all over the place. move on would be a great spot for it to I don't know just so um confusion and you know all dead ends people on on yeah amazingly we don't get a lot of I mean we get people you know sending us a report with like pornography in it sometimes right but we don't get any you know uh disinformation type stuff where you do see the disinformation type stuff and which I'm very very suspicious of is at these congressional hearings all All right. Do you remember remember David Grush, the whistleblower? Okay. All right. If that guy was really rogue, all right, they would have put a bullet in his head like before he even got to the congressional hearings. All right. And he talks about some really really uh interesting stuff. And after the hearings, all right, first he talked about uh offworld craft retrievalss and nonhuman biologics. All right, that guy's an intelligence officer, so he's got everyone in Congress going, "Whoa!" All right, he's got everybody watching on TV going, "Oh." All right, think about it. Let's say again, we're dealing with time travelers. Or let's say the United States has a secret base on the moon and we're already manufacturing stuff on the moon, all right? Using materials from the moon because we're going to be mining the moon soon. All right, so off-world craft could be United States craft, but just not built on Earth. Maybe they built them out in space. Nonhuman biologics. Maybe that's just the, you know, the broccoli lunch pouch from an astronaut. All right. He could be, you know, blowing perfume smoke up or you know what, you know what I mean? But it's it's the delivery. It's all in the delivery. Well, where where are you at on uh genetic testing by the governments? Because I mean I just have this like base understanding that the government or it's hard to say the government. The government's like a multi-headed beast in my mind, but there's probably groups that have a lot of funding that are are charged with doing genetic experimentation to see if they can make super soldiers or whatnot. I would guess if you're a military guy, you've got to say, well, my job is to defend my country against any possible danger. And as soon as you learn about like crisper 9 or whatever and you know that we can, you know, breed glow-in-the-dark dogs like that guy in North Carolina. Yeah. Yeah. You have to say, well, well, I know that people in I know that China has to be testing with super soldiers and trying to make your skin really resistant and this and that. Wouldn't it seem likely they would have started on that probably like 50 or 60 years ago as soon as we figured out what the gene human genome was? Yeah, I can't I I can't exactly tell you because we're going to present it at the symposium, but but yeah, they were doing that in 1968 and we found that in Stringfield's diaries also. Okay, that's Springfield's Springfield's diaries are the motherload. It's 12,000 pages of like wacky, deep, you know, government stuff. So, we become members of the network. We get access to the full diaries but redacted no names. But even even the members have redacted versions. Okay. Yeah. So this is the way it works with the with the Springfield diaries. Um 25 years ago Muon began just scanning stuff scanning scanning scanning documents from Blebook. Um we actually have we took all 13,000 drawings from the 140,000 witness reports and turned it into a drawing gallery. And it's amazing the similarities of things that people draw. You'll see the same drawings over and over again. It's it's bizarre. We have a newspaper collection that's actually free to the public with hundreds of thousands of UFO related newspaper clippings. We have every single Rufon magazine from 1967 up until this month. We have all of the preceding books from the symposiums since the 1970s. So if you wanted to know what Stanton Freriedman was talking about in 1998 at the Muon Symposium, we got the topic there. All right. And we have private collections of of other authors. We have uh hundreds and hundreds of MJ12 documents. All right. Uh what's MJ12? Majestic 12, the secret uh group of um American military and scientists that were secretly investigating UFOs. There's there's doubt whether it was real or whether it was a uh a hoax, but a very well done hoax, but we have tons and tons of documents. And we also now are releasing once a month the Stringfield Diaries, and we've released the first five so far. So, you can either get that with the enhanced membership package at Muon or you can buy it as a standalone $50 a year membership card. So, you don't have to be a Muon member to get access to the library. It's it's over two terabytes of information and we still have another terabyte to upload. Um, but it's just fascinating. And if if you want to check it out, go to project Aquarius.on.com com and just go to the free newspaper clippings rooms and you you'll be amazed at how much stuff is in Are these diaries handwritten or typed? Typed. Typed. Oh, so they could be scanned and fed into like a large language model or something like that. They could. Yes, the PDFs. We could we could create a bot that that has the memory of all those diaries that you could chat with. Actually, like a chat with the diary type. They're Muon has a contractor right now where they're developing something like that right now. Oh, that's great. Yeah. Hopefully that'll be short cover. One of the one of the things that I'd like to see is in in this drawing rooms gallery, you saw people draw three things. They draw entities like grays, reptilians, tall blond, Nordics. They draw craft. Uh, and you'd be amazed at the different types of craft that people draw. Uh, and then they draw symbols, hieroglyphics that they see appear on their wall or were given to them in their head by the aliens. Did you ever see like uh Rendlessham with the hieroglyphics possibly on the side of the triangular ship craft that landed um Springfield's diaries by the way? Uh we just saw this last week. Uh they have a version of the Rendlessham story where there were actually three entities hovering in a beam of light making repairs to that ship. That's something that the story has never had before in all of its tellings of the past 40 years. And you tell that story. I just told You're the first people in public that that story's ever been told to. I just gave you breaking news. I just mean the whole the the whole story, not just the extra bit about it. Oh, well, you'll have to get the you'll have to wait for diary number 23 to come out or back. Fair enough. Yeah. Well, that leads me. So, when uh David Fraver came out, I think in 2019, man, that blew my mind. I couldn't believe there was this guy that had real credentials that was talking about having seen a craft. I didn't believe any of this stuff was even remotely possible. So, I went traveling Latin America for like 2 years just looking. I thought, well, if it's as prevalent as what it must be for for this guy to have seen a craft with four other people, then I'm going to find cases if I start traveling Latin America. That's that's how I had it like probabilistically. And I I was actually in Brazil right around the time when James Fox released uh the Varia case where it came down and there was aliens that came out and I met someone. There's a there's a book coming out on that probably next month. Uh our our director of investigations uh for for uh what's her name? Uh a woman by the name of Fernanda Day Perez. All right. She's a Muon director. Uh, and she just had a book translated on that into English and they're going to be releasing it this month. Sorry to interrupt. I just want to let you know there's a book coming out on that. Yeah. Well, I I was as I was traveling around asking people about like because I didn't know if it was real or not or if there were retrieval programs like this or not. I met a woman. She was a news anchor and one she said one of her friends had been driving a taxi in in the town. I think it's called Trace Altos or something. Real small town up there in Mina. and he said that day was the first they had ever seen Russian people show up. There were Russian men in black suits who wanted taxied from our little airport around the town. We couldn't understand a word that they said and we didn't know what they were doing, but it happened right after the crash and all the stuff got gobbled up by the US and the Russians and then they all left. And I heard a similar story in in southern Bolivia, northern Argentina actually, from a truck driver. So, let's just let's go on the premise that there are um different races. where do you stand on which races there are and and maybe like what what details do you feel kind of firm on or loose on about the different races that could be out there? Okay. Um I've seen a lot of reports in my day. All right. I've probably read 10,000 or more easily in the past three years. Um, I mean there's books out, you know, the the entity almanac or whatever that show that there's 500 different types of beings and they come from this star system and that star system. I can tell you from all of the cases I've read, there are primarily three types. There are the tallblown Nordics, there are the little grays, and there are reptilians. That is what I have seen over and over again. The most prevalent, the grays. second most the toolblant nordics. Third are the reptilians and reptilians are sort of way down. There's also a scattering of the insecttoid types, the praying mantis types, but that's top four that I see. I don't see 500 different, you know, species visit. Any personality traits that seem to come along with either the grays? Actually, I've heard there's like three different versions of grays and they come at different heights. There's at least two different versions of grays. I know there's the tall one. Okay. So, when you get you get abducted and you wake up and you're on the metal table on this, you know, in this roundish room with diffused whitish bluish light and there's three little grays around you and then the big guy comes in and he goes face to face with you and you get this like sexual ejaculation feeling and everything's, you know, happy then and that's when they start sticking needles in your belly. Okay. So, they uh the presentation I gave last night contained a lot about grays. A lot of people described the grays as soulless. All right. I actually uh know somebody who used to work for Muon who may have been connected to a government agency that said that the grays are plant-based genetically modified drones. All right. Uh and I don't know if that's true. You often see the grays working in conjunction with tall blonde Nordics. A lot of times when there's a a phenomenon called the skull drillers where people these tall entities come in sometimes with a short entity like a gray and they just start drilling into the back of people's skull behind their left ear. And I have at least a dozen cases of exactly that same thing happening all over the world. Um, but the grays seem to be subservient to the tall blonde Nordics. All right? And think about this. This is my theory. In a lot of the um tall blonde Nordic cases that you get, they appear to be these benevolent Star Trek types. You know, they're wearing the powder blue shiny spandex suit like seven of nine in Star Trek. They've got some sort of emblem on their, you know, on their chest. usually geometric design as if they belong to some sort of military unit and they're always, you know, appearing to be benevolent, but a lot of times the things they do are not benevolent. All right? They're sort of sinister. And think about this, humans, because they they are humanoid, humans are apex predators. Any mammal that has its eyes facing forward is a predator. The little grays, their eyes go around the side of their head like a deer, which is like prey. So, my personal feeling is that whatever the grays are, they were domesticated by the the tall bloods. That's interesting. I've never heard that before. They were They're like dogs to, you know, to us. They're like they're like dogs. Yes. They'll do whatever they're told to do. They're domesticated there. I I think there's been two ex-defense ministers, one ex-Canadian defense minister and then the former head of Israeli aerospace defense, I believe, that both came out and said that the United States has I think they said they have a contract with some some government, intergalactic government. Uh have you ever have you ever looked into that or gotten reports? Well, what the what the United States government does if they do have crash debris, for example. They can be subject to a foyer request, a Freedom of Information Act request. So, what they do is they they pawn it off to private corporations like Battel, Bigalow Aerospace, and they're under no compunction to ever tell you anything. I mean, Bigalow just built a massive warehouse out in Las Vegas. He's got black helicopters flying around it to protect it. what what's he storing in there? He doesn't have to tell you. The United States government would. So, you know, I do think that there's there's something going on for sure. Yeah. Matt Matt and I sold a a software company and in the process, we learned how valuable it is sometimes to set up shell companies and move jurisdictions when you're setting up stuff. It it seems it would be so easy in the current like like business setup that we have in this on this earth to hide stuff in sub codes of sub codes of sub coast inside of trust inside of subco. It'd be so easy. That's interesting. Yeah, I I could buy that for sure. How often do you guys do you get contacted by sort of federal agencies to assist with or give input on how how closely tied are you guys with them relationally? We're not uh but we we we are um we are pretty close to some members in Congress. As a matter of fact, when they had the the last set of hearings, um my boss went to Washington, our executive director, uh Dave McDonald, and he brings with him statistics and and reports that we feel are, you know, excellent. And I usually write, uh the reports that that he takes. And so the last set that I gave him was turned over to Senator Kirsten Gillibrand and Congressman Tim Bashett. Uh Andre Carson is another one who's a friend of muon Vienna. Yeah. And uh uh Nancy Mace. Uh Representative Nancy Mace. They're friends with Muon. They're very very uh uptight right now about the military hiding stuff and that's why they keep having these hearings. And I believe there's going to be there's going to be another round of hearings this summer if I'm not mistaken. So they want to get to the bottom of it. Timbers especially is like loaded for their want to go after the military, you know. So, it's so cool to watch. But remember this, they've been having hearings for decades and it's almost like they start from scratch every single time. So, are they just like pumping us up to let us down? Pump us up to let us down. You know, I don't think disclosure is coming anytime soon. That's my personal opinion. Yeah, it doesn't seem that they would have there's not enough upside for like whoever's in control of this. There's no upside in letting the rest of us, you know, semi-developed monkeys know about it, basically. On it. Yeah. Yeah. Like, what are we We're just going to We're just going to create a bunch of political issues about it. We're going to introduce a bunch of social rights that they don't have to deal with right now. I don't see how it benefits them. Where do what do you think about Elon? I'm so curious. Like, he's starting to get all these defense contracts. seems like he could easily go down the route of having companies with sub companies with sub companies that would get some of this material, especially if especially if he's really got eyes on space with all these satellites. Elon says that there that that he sees no proof that they're aliens, but he doesn't say anything else about interdimensionals, time travelers, you know, or maybe he does believe in aliens, but he has a vested interest in um not telling us. If you want to hear a really really interesting story about Elon Musk, I'll tell you. All right. Yeah. It starts in World War II. All right. Do we're doing the time travel thing again. Okay. Um Wavon Brawn, he was the Nazi scientist who developed the V2 rocket. Okay. When the war ended, he came over to the United States under Operation Paperclipip with about 200 other Nazi scientists. uh instead of standing trial and being hung at Nuremberg. So he comes over in Operation Paperclip and he's working in New Mexico in the 1950s on you know cold war stuff. And while he's there he writes a novel. Did you ever hear this story? No. This is great. He writes a novel called uh I think it's called Project Mars. And it's a very technical, dry, boring novel about how the United States would use stepping stones to get to Mars and colonize it. Okay. In chapter, it's either chapter 28 or 23, he describes once the United States has colonized Mars, how the government of Mars would operate. And it would be sort of like a Senate and a a House of Representatives like two-chamber government. And the leader, the president, the prime minister, his title would be the Elon. E L O N. All right. This book was written in 1952. All right. Fast forward to the 1970s at the start of uh Ronald Reagan's um strategic defense initiative Star Wars. Okay. There were some pretty heavy duty names uh involved with that including Von Drawn right before he died. Oppenheimer. Okay. And at the time, Von Drawn had a secretary uh her name was Carol Rose. And he told her uh a couple of interesting things that uh there's not aliens. It's all about the weaponization of of space and the way they're going to acclimate the public to it. First, there'll be uh terrorist attacks where we have to develop a a sort of a Star Wars system. And then in the future, we'll we'll be worried about an asteroid hitting Earth. So, what did NASA just test? A way to deflect asteroids. Okay, it's not about deflecting asteroids. It's about the militarization of space. All right, so just stay with me here. Okay, so um they come up with this idea Oenheimer and von Brrawn. Uh it's called Operation Brilliant Pebbles. And if you look in Wikipedia at the diagram of this Operation Brilliant Pebble satellite, it's an anti-satellite satellite. It kills other satellites, right? It's shaped like a sort of like an oval and it's got a solar array almost like nichian blinds going straight up from it. So picture something like this with like a long rectangle of solar panels on it. This is in 1980. And also in Wikipedia, you'll see the coverage map of where Brilliant Pebbles was going to be. And basically, it encompasses the entire Earth except the poles. All right, fast forward ahead to Starlink, Elon Musk's Starlink. All right, if you look at a Starlink satellite, once it's fully deployed, it's an oval with Venetian blinds. It is an exact replica of a satellite killing satellite designed in the 1980s. All right, Starlink may be for internet, but I also think it's for something else. And in October of last year, Elon Musk entered into a contract with the United States government for what's it called? Star Shield, where he's going to be deploying another network of satellites to the military like Starlink. If you look at the coverage map for Starlink and Star Shield, it's an exact replica of the coverage map for Operation Bringing Pebbles. I think that Elon Musk and Warren von Bru somehow knew each other. That's incredible. I mean, I heard Elon say he was on a podcast or something and he said there's like 9,000 satellites orbiting Earth or 10,000. And he said Starlink has half of them. And he's like, "Yeah, I think I think everything in the past five years that's active in space, 80% is his." All right. He he owns space, you know. Yep. What a chess move. And he and he owns like battery production and he owns AI companies. Yeah. The ship in the head and he's working owning media. I mean, I I mean, and and plus, he's so wellliked and just helped Trump get get elected. And he's of a European descent. He's Dutch and he fits all the qualifications of the Antichrist. Go you want to go down that route. All right. I would love to. Yeah. We got to see what we got to see the trajectory of where Elon goes in the next 10 years because Elon's going to be around long after Trump is gone. Okay. Yeah. So, yeah, seems like it. Elon Musk has a gun next to his bed at night. I don't know if you knew that. I mean, I would if I was him, that's for sure. And like three empty cans of Diet Coke, so you know. Yeah. Um, so Elon might be the Antichrist. That's that's interesting. I don't want to One thing I always feel about Elon is like human humanity has to have a leader. Somebody's got to be just taking the helm and doing big things, you know, whether it's like General MacArthur, Eisenhower, Elon, whoever it's going to be. I don't I don't ever want to demonize the person because they're always gonna set off at least half the half half the population because I don't want to turn them into the villain that we all probably deserve. You know what I mean? No, I actually like him. I'm just saying that like I've been noticing lately story arc. He hasn't fallen. He hasn't seen the complete fall yet. He's building. He's still climbing. Yeah. Yeah. I I'll still be rooting for him till till something Yep. Yep. till he moves to Mars and threatens to blow up Earth if we don't or until they start building the third temple, you know, then we know, you know, it's all going down a drain after that. So, yeah, this time travel stories really work out better. Or they start giving numbers out and for commerce. You can't you can't buy it without showing your number. That would be We're going in the wrong direction. Oh, yeah. Well, it's so funny that we keep seeming to prove like I saw this study that some scientists found that there were time crystals that they could play with and then you know Google comes out and basically says that there's a multiverse with this quantum computer. Like it really feels like all the little data that we get from the bottom says that time's not real or time's manipulatable. It's another force and we just happen to be experiencing it. But for some reason our brains just can't accept that there's time travel. I don't get the disconnect there. Yeah. I I mean, listen, there's a couple of different things I could say there. Like, let's say somebody prevents 9/11 from happening. Then maybe the timeline bifurcates. So, there'll always be a timeline where 911 happened and then there's a timeline where it never happened. And this could be going on, you know, uh, all of eternity. Uh, same thing with with with humans. when you like go down to the leptton and quark level. All right, we're not even solid. We're not even here. I mean, I don't even know how you explain that. All right, so that's true. Yeah. I wonder if consciousness is a fundamental force if you do get to kind of choose which bifurcations you're going to take to some degree. Like I I went through this actually I quit smoking cigarettes like a year ago and I had to go through this I was actually thinking about all the timelines. I was like, "Well, there's probably a timeline where Austin keeps smoking cigarettes." And then I came I felt like I centered myself and I said, "You know what? I am going to decide as me that there's no timeline where I keep smoking cigarettes." And I was done. And so maybe I cut off some of those timelines. So I'm sorry to any individuals that were trying to live in that timeline that I might have killed. I do feel bad about that. I I I stopped smoking in 2008. All right. All right. To this day, I still have dreams where I'm smoking and I say, "If only I had quit." All right. No way. Yeah. It's crazy. I It's like a recurring dream that I have. So, so I got a question. I have a friend who just quit smoking cigarettes and she just told me on a run this morning. We We run up the castle here in Mexico City every Thursday morning. She told me that she saw a shadow figure last night and she's like two days into quitting smoking. She had sleep paralysis last night and she saw a shadow figure, which is a common story that I've heard with sleep paralysis, but I never had associated with quitting smoking. Yeah. You know, it's good that you reminded me that I told you Nordics first, gray second, reptiles third. All right. You You've also got shadow people, and you've got hooded figures. Sometimes the hooded figures are shorter, sometimes they're tallest, sometimes they're wearing white hoods, sometimes they're wearing black hoods. So that they're they're not by far as prevalent as the first three. But yeah, shadow people. As a matter of fact, the presentation I gave last night, a kid uh saw a shadow person in his room in this fun case and he thought it was a dream. He goes out to tell his mother and his mother says, "What time was that?" And he says, "2 a.m." She goes, "That's exactly when I saw a shadow figure myself." So, you know, when you have two or more witnesses, that lends more credibility to a story that there was actually a shadow person, you know, in the room. So, I yes, I I uh I absolutely believe that shadow people are a thing also. Yeah, I'm I'm 100% on shadow figures. We'll put that in my dating profile when you get the app ready. Uh but I don't know what they are. I mean, I I rarely hear anyone even talk about like what they could be. I think David Ike I've heard once say that they are like the they're the astral body to a bunch of lizard people that are in hibernation tunnels. But that's he's the only person I've even heard like address like where shadow figures really come from because they seem to exist in like every culture too. Yep. My wife saw shadow figures. My wife's from Indonesia and there's a lot of creepy stuff goes on in the small villages of Indonesia, but my wife said when she was a kid, she could see the shadow piggies going across her room. So, I definitely believe her. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Do you think that it's um do you think that these guys are against us for us? Don't care about us? What do you think the I mean, it seems like if they wanted to destroy us, we'd already be gone. I mean, you know, it seems like it. So what do you what do you have any idea or any opinion I guess on their motives and whether any of them are actually bad and are you talking about shadow people or aliens Matt? I think in general no I guess all these groups in general yeah all these groups like they all seem like they should all of them should be more powerful than humanity and so they could just stomp on us if they wanted to and so I I but again I don't know I don't I haven't I haven't thought as much about it so I was wondering if you had an opinion on sort of what they're doing. Yeah, I I if you ever go back to um if you're familiar with Charles Fort, he was the Charles Fort uh wrote a book called uh Book of the Damn, and he was the original investigator of weird stuff. Uh Reigns of Frogs, Reigns of Blood. Uh he had reports of triangles in 1898. And he he published this book in the 1920s. And so if you ever heard the term Forian researcher, it's based on his last name. And they're people that they don't only investigate UFOs, they just investigate anything that's strange. Okay? Shadow people, that type of thing. Um, and he had a famous quote in his book that said, "We are someone's property." Okay? Basically, that we're a zoo or a lab and that we're lab rats. And um, I believe that to a certain extent. I definitely think um what Matt said before uh are they good, bad, or indifferent? I believe it's all three because I don't think it's all one entity. It's it's different uh entities with different agendas. I think there's good good aliens, bad aliens. There are aliens if I don't like to call them aliens or I call them visitors. All right? Um because I really don't know where they're coming from. There's one case where a fellow in Italy is on his balcony and he sees two orbs coming at him and they materialize into two small entities on his balcony in front of him. The one entity turns to the other one and says he's sick. Heal him. And the next thing he knows they turn back into balls of light and fly away and his cancer is gone. Okay. So there are many many many stories of um uh aliens curing people, strange people in silver suits in South America walking into a sick girl's bedroom, touching her in front of the parents and then walking out. All of these crazy stories where we see healings, okay? And a lot of experiencers, especially when they come to our symposiums, we have experiencer workshops just for them. They're private. We never film that part of the symposium. Okay. They believe a lot of times their um their experiences are positive. But I'll tell you an experiencer who had a very bad experience. And this is a crazy this is a creepy story. Um woman told me story where when she's old lady now in the 1960s she was about 10 years old and she saw uh blue and white orbs come into her bedroom. Next thing she knows he's in a dark place. She's in line with other people ahead of her. There are alien grays on both sides of her and everyone's walking into a machine and she sticks her head out to look to see what's on the other side of the machine and it's piles of flesh, turned up flesh coming out. So these people are walking into a machine and being meat grinder, like a meat grinder turned into bacon and she starts screaming and one of the grays comes over and says, "We can't use her." They touch her and she's back in her bed. All right. And I'm say that's that's a scary story. So, you know, that that shows that there's bad aliens. And then there's other ones that seem like they need to experiment on people because they need something. Maybe they're from the future. Something went wrong. They're coming back and they're on a mission. They don't they don't want to hurt you. They don't want to help you. They just want your DNA or something. All right. And they're very methodical and cold and they're just doing what they've got to do. So yeah, I definitely think there's different reasons. There's good, bad, and different. Sure. Do you I always wonder, do you think the rules of karma would apply to them? I mean, if there are rules of karma, which a lot of religions and things seem to tout like there's sort of a there's a wave function of the universe at some time and karma kind of goes up and karma kind of goes down. I wonder if if grays are like soulless. I wonder if they even I wonder if they even care if what they do has an impact on their future or Right. Well, there's one theory that the the grays if they are soulless um in if we get into religion here for a second in the Bible um demons don't have bodies. All right, the disembodied angels that got taken down the Nephilim are basically demons now without a body. that uh an alien gray would be a perfect vessel for a demon to enter to do whatever they want, you know. So, yeah, this karma reply, do bad things happen. Yeah. Another interesting thing is when people who are of a Christian persuasion are being abducted and they're very scared and call out to Jesus. All right. And this is they wrote a book on this. Um oh, it's over. So, was it really aliens that were abducting them or was it something demonic? All right. And the power of spirituality overwhelmed what was about to happen to them. So, yeah, I definitely that's why Mufa never says it's aliens or demons or whatever. Plus, it could be all A, B, C, all of the above, you know, or is it just a password like like uh in the Old Testament when you need to put the blood above the your threshold, I'll pass over you. And it's just kind of like, hey, do this. And may maybe crying out. Maybe it's not the word Jesus. Maybe it is actually, but maybe it's the intent or something. And you know, maybe it's a a large number thing. They get a thousand people and you know, x% are going to make this cry out and they're gone. And sort of like that the girl who screamed going into the meat locker and they're like, "Oh, we can use you." Like maybe maybe it's actually something helpful or it's interdimensional. That'd be pretty interesting. Yeah. I'll tell you another interesting story. Um it's not aliens related but it um they did a study what the University of Virginia has a random number generator. All right. And they found out that random it when it generates random numbers there are patterns in the random numbers. All right. Uh that come out on on 911 the following year. Everybody played 911 in the New York lottery. All right. In 2002. And that day 911 came out. All right. and everybody won. Uh the New York Times crossword puzzles, they they broke uh a test group of the three groups. People who took the crossword puzzle a week before it was published, people who took the the crossword uh puzzle the day it was published, and then a week after, but people who had never seen it. And what they found was the number of correct answers went up over time even though none of these three groups ever spoke to each other or saw the test before and they're saying was it out there somewhere in the ether you know to be picked up like we're antennas. So I mean there's so much you could talk about there's so many ways to go about what's going on around us. I mean we can only see a certain amount of you know light in the spectrum but the spectrum goes you know so far what's going on all around us that we don't know you know what type of forces are out there. Yeah. And this idea that I mean it it seems to me it's a fractal universe like especially if you read like Benwa Mandler and he he studied for patterns and and random stuff and it feels like there are patterns that make up the whole universe concocted of these patterns and we don't know what the pattern is yet but it feels like if that's true you would start to see things going from small to larger and I don't see anywhere in this universe where you can look where there's any sort of carbon or oxygen or anything where life hasn't started sprouting up. I mean, even in the corner of your bathroom, like mold will just start growing out of nowhere. You don't even know where it came from. In fact, we had a guy uh George Howard on the show and he talked about how dust uh space is littered with living things and like the building blocks that like they're going out to the space station and they're cleaning the outside of the space station and and on the rags is like bacteria or like or like something some building blocks of bacteria something that was basically I guess he said there's nothing out in space but it seems that life can survive in some dormant state or something and it's literally everywhere in space like it's just a bunch of dust everywhere. And I thought that was pretty interesting because it maybe because there's a theory that then it falls to a planet or you know it's it basically seeds a planet um or can with biological extra biological life kind of. Yeah. That that that's that's called the panspermia theory. Yeah. There it is. Right. Right. So, uh, you know, there's a there's, um, if you ever heard of the term nostto, it's this jelly like material that people find in their backyards, and it's also called star jelly. And over the centuries, people equated it with when they see like a meteorite, and then later on there'd be this gelatin type stuff on the ground. And scientists will tell you, oh, it's it's frog spawn or or frog vomit. All right? Or something like that. Uh, the movie The Blob in the 1950s with Steve McQueen is based on an actual Nostto incident that happened with two cops in Pennsylvania where they saw this quivering gelatin stuff right after a meteorite. Um, some people have picked it up and boom, it ignites and burns them. All right, which may be another theory of what these orbs are, but essentially for hundreds of years people have equated it with something falling from the sky. So what is this stuff that you know falls from the sky? All right. Is that related to black goo? Are you familiar with black goo and maybe the I think probably is okay. I don't know that story but I would assume that there's probably a relational you know relationship. Okay. Yeah. I don't know I don't know that story either very well. So I won't go into it. But it does feel that fact is probably stranger than fiction based on this conversation. That's what I'm coming to understand. You since you've been doing this for so long, have you seen an increase in the reports um at least of like having video evidence and and photo evidence because you know now everybody's carrying around 50 megapixels in their pocket. Yes. Yes. Yep. Yep. Um we actually had to go to a new server. All right. Because years ago people would send us a picture was like, you know, a couple of pixels. Now it's like we're getting these highdefinition movies that just like eat up server space and it it's just, you know, it's just a bird flying by very fast that's blurry. But but we have to keep it all. We keep it all. All right. N I'd say more than 90% of what we get video and photographic wise we can't use. All right? Or we can identify it as you know people like to take pictures with the sun in it and then people see this blue orb down here and they go I saw this blue orb with my own eyes but they didn't. It's it's a camera artifact of the sun reflecting inside the lens. Oh well it's got little white port holes in it. Well that's because those are washed out pixels. All right, but it's blue. All right. That's because the lenses of of, you know, cell phone cameras are coated in sapphire dust to cut down on We can and people will still say, "No, no, you don't know what you're talking about." All right. Or or people are taking a picture, a video of Venus at night and it's just sparkling and out of focus because the camera is set to infinity. So 99% of the stuff we get, we can't use. However, the the 5% that is good is usually really really compelling stuff. Do you know more about that process? Um I because you know sometimes we always keep getting you know what's AI, what's real, what's not and people are like it is real, it isn't real. Um what are some of the telling do you know the telling characteristics where you go through three tests or five tests or some some series of operations and you're like this is legit like this is Yeah. What does that look like to actually in validate or invalidate a photo? Yeah, we actually we have a six-man uh photo analysis team and the these people are good. Like I mentioned before, Mark Dantonio, he's been on a 100 television shows. Um he's really good. Uh we have uh the former head of cyber security at Fermy Labs is on our uh photo analysis team. So these guys are no slouches and they use the software uh video and photo analysis software that the French air force uses. Okay. So they use very very very sophisticated software. We can tell hoaxes. You name it. All right. Uh but the interesting thing there's there's a a fighter pilot photo where he's looking at this thing out of his cockpit. I don't know if you seen it's not the fra video. It's a It's a photo, daytime photo through the cockpit. And it's sort of like a uh round in the front, but it's got serrated edges. It's curved in the back, and it's got a black dot in the middle of it. All right. This is from 2018 over the Atlantic Ocean. You go back to 1947. All right. There's there's a photo from I believe it's Nevada. It's the same exact object 70 years later that this fighter pilot sees that was photographed in the 1950s. That's where you start to put the pieces together that this phenomenon's been going on for a long, long time. And of course, I said before, we have a really, really exceptional video of a black triangle and they're very hard to capture. All right. So, we're really looking out soon. That's going to be in July. That's going to be one of the cases of interest that we present. and the fellow uh Seth Feinstein who's on our photo analysis team, I will bring him up on stage and he'll go through all of the metrics on how they validated it and proved that it's definitely an anomalous aircraft. Yeah. Do do people ever ask you if you are an agent? No. No, you're you're the first person that ever ask me that actually. No, people don't don't I don't come across as a uh you know secret agent man. That's exactly how I want my agents to be. I think that's why it's a valid question. I guess I'm going to have to go find a new line of work now. Thanks for outing me. Breaking breaking news. Yeah, just go back to HQ. They'll have another assignment for you. I was the agent here. So much for being on TV again. That's Oh, no. They control me. You'll fit right in there. Oh, we did talk to John Kuryaku in XCIA. I I don't know if you're familiar with John Kuryaku. He was a CIA whistleblower on some stuff back in Iraq and Afghanistan, I think. And he he said like the amount of CIA involvement in the media is unbelievable. He's like he wouldn't believe Oh, sure. Sure. didn't Zuckerberg just came out last week and said, you know, that the Biden administration basically was shouting at them, censor this code, but I I mean, so yeah, I know the government's not, you know, Ronald Re, what did Ronald Reagan say? The scariest word you can ever hear is, I'm from the government. I'm here to help. Oh man, he had so many good singers. Um, oh, what? Wait, yeah, we're about we're about at an hour and a half. Uh, I don't want to take up too much of your time, Bob. This is fantastic. If you want I I told that before. I wanted to show you something. The scariest stuff from Oh, yeah. Okay. This was case interest last year. All right. Um, I'm going to share my screen with you guys. I'm glad I remembered to do this. Ah, here you go. Can you see that? Uh, yep. Yep. Okay. So, we started seeing reports of people claiming that there were these jellyfish or squidlike objects appearing in their bedrooms. All right. And I chose this picture specifically because a lot of the things that they the way they described these objects is that they sort of had a glow or a bluish bioluminescence to them. All right. And what they were doing was was absolutely scary. Uh, this is Muon case 8022 from Vancouver, Canada. Remember the date, October 24th. Okay. Female witness. All right. She wakes up in the middle of the night. She doesn't even hear her refrigerator or heater. And this is what I was talking about earlier, the Oz effect where there's absolute silence, almost as if the witness is in a bubble. Okay. She sees this jellyfish thing up near the ceiling and it looks sort of technological to her. It's got tentacles coming down. All right. And it has what looks like mechanical claws at the end of it. All right. And she hears it get upset telepathically. I'm assuming in English it was upset that that she woke up. And what she realizes is that this tentacle had attached itself to her backside. All right. And then the um object just simply disappears. All right. She said it was a dull pale color like metal and it had tentacle light cords hanging down. And I the only way I can picture that in my mind is if you think of a string of Christmas lights, all right, sparkling down. But and so is it bioluminescent? Is it a machine? Is it biological? Why is it attaching itself to her back? And she says that uh it hurt her and that her periods after that became very heavy for a while. All right. So I would think that this is not what you would consider a good uh encounter. This is something dark. Okay. She drew a picture of it. All right. And this is one of my in the I told you the 13,000 drawings that we have from witnesses. This is one of my favorites. It's so well drawn. Oh yeah. She's an artist. That's really good. That's Imagine that. Waking up and then seeing that thing above you and it's blue. It's attaching glowing blue. Yeah. Wow. All right. My son would love that as a nightlight, actually. Yeah. As long as it's not floating and it's attaching to his spinal cord. That's right. All right. Same date, two years earlier. October 24th. Opposite side of the world, but the same date. All right. Is there something special about October 24th with jellyfish? This is in Iran. 45 year old woman. The incident is preceded by several poltergeist instances. Uh and she's seeing orbs in the house. At one point she walks in the kitchen and she sees her dinner in a frying pan uh levitating in midair. Her husband comes in. He freaks out. The pan drops to the floor. So they both see it. After that, uh, on October 24th, she felt that something was coming for her. She felt a pressure on her chest. Okay. Um, and she saw what looked like a boxed jellyfish with locks of short legs, half blue and half red, on her stomach. Okay. Um, that's that's pretty. She says it looks like a a sea creature. So, again, we see, you know, there's this blue aspect to it. and then after a few minutes it disappears. But while it's on her, it does something to her abdomen. And she was smart enough to take a picture of it. So when you see the photograph of the scar this thing left behind, you will be absolutely convinced that it was doing some sort of surgery on her. I don't have a picture or a drawing from her, but I have another case of a bedroom encounter, and I'm going to use that drawing to show you what I believe she saw. Okay, that's the scar that the jellyfish left. All right, that that's not a cut. That's a surgical scar. And this is from a a case in Bloomfield, Indiana. Uh it was with a 15-year-old Catholic virgin girl who woke up with this thing on her and uh she was getting a clear discharge from her vagina even though she was a virgin. So, what was this thing doing to her? And it's almost the the exact description of what this lady and I read was describing. Okay. So what are these things that are in people's bedrooms and this one is the earliest account that we have 1937 the straight times was the leading paper in Asia in the 1930s. Uh so the Zelma Bramley Moore she was very popular in the 1930s. She wrote books. She was a mystic. She did horoscopes. All right. psychics seances and she's on vacation and Zelma wakes up in the middle of the night in this hotel in Singapore and she says two or three feet from my face was this floating thing. It was about the size and shape of a rugby football standing up on end and it appeared to be made out of some sort of luminous gassy substance which radiated a strong pale blue light. So we keep seeing this bioluminescent type of glow. And where do you see bioluminescence? You see it at the bottom of the sea where it's dark. You see it with lightning bugs when it's dark. Why would these jellyfish be using bioluminescence? Are they from Earth or are they from another place that's dark? Okay. Anyway, this thing has one long tentacle about the thickness of a thumb coming down out of it. And she says this r the the thing ran to her forehead. It was attached to her forehead. And this is what she says. It was uh as if my vitality seemed to be flowing into the football-shaped visitor. It was sucking her soul or her life force out of her like any other case. She wakes up, the thing jerks away and disappears. 1937 till what's the first one? Uh 2016. All right. Decades. decades these jellyfish have been and they they fly in in the air next to like near these people and they're not they're probably not like humming or worring or making any sort of it has nothing to do with lift I'm guessing no and and flying and how did it get into the the bedroom I mean possibly the windows were open maybe not you know did it just materialize from another plane of existence be a higher dimensional yeah we should be seeing a cross-section of a higher dimensional being. So, so think about this. This is how I always end with the jellyfish presentation. So, you heard that Uncle Joe died peacefully in his sleep last night, right? Oh, Uncle Joe, he was old. He died peacefully. Well, maybe it was a jellyfish sucking his soul out of him. All right. Nobody will ever know. Oh, poor Uncle Joe. Dang. Yeah, we need to send some more prayers his way. So, okay. I just I didn't want to let you go without me showing you the jellyfish stuff. Oh, that's fantastic. Pretty pretty scary stuff. Well, I've heard of some even jellyfish type things in the sky. I've heard of some people seeing some very mutating shapes, you know, look like plasma type beings in the sky. Make of it. This all came about because of Cordell's video of the jellyfish object over the Iraqi base. So, we started going into the Muon database and typing in keywords jellyfish squid. And not only did we find outdoor jellyfish up in the skies, we started finding these indoor ones. That's how we came across this phenomena. Oh, that's it seems like digitizing your whole thing and throwing it into an LLM is going to yield a lot of stuff. You have so much data that hasn't been analyzed. It sounds like and and there's so many other groups and databases around the world. Once AI gets going and you start crunching the numbers and stuff, it's like I'm hoping all of these patterns and hieroglyphics that people write, once they like shove it to AI, it we're going to find out is it gibberish or is it a language and is there a message in it? So, that's what I look forward to most of all is what AI is going to be able to do with all of this this stuff. Oh, yeah. Especially with quantum computing coming out. I've I've heard some there was a Y files episode where he talks about how quantum computers will be able to crack the what are they called? the Voyage documents or the I thought that they just cracked that or partially cracked it. Maybe maybe they did. Yeah. Yeah. Well, you just mentioned Jeremy Corbel. I kind of want to ask in the UFO space there's so many there's so many like splinters it feels like between groups. Can you give me I know Jeremy Corbel is famous for bringing the Bob Lazar story back to life and making the documentary. What What are your thoughts on Bob Lazar, George Knapp, and Jeremy Corbel? Um, Lazar, uh, I went back and forth for many years. I tend to believe. Okay. Um, some of the some of the story doesn't stack up, but that happens a lot of times that there's discrepancies, but but I think he he saw something and I think he knows something. Uh, I've met Knap. He was the keynote speaker several years ago at the symposium. Uh, he's very serious about it and I think he knows a lot more than he'll ever tell us because he's friends with Robert Bigalow. All right. Uh, and Corbel, I'm on, you know, my personal opinion. I'm on the fence about him. I don't necessarily think that that jellyfish video is anything out of the ordinary. I think it may have actually been um a humanoid shaped military drone with quadcopter wings. And the reason why it looks like spaghetti is cuz it's wearing what was called a ghillie suit, which is when soldiers want to blend in. So, I think that there's a plausible explanation for that video and in my opinion, I think just trying to capitalize off it and it's it's nothing anomalous. So, that's my opinion on Cortel. Okay. None neither of them are agents. I guess they're just reporters doing their best. Yeah. Um like same thing with with Greer, Steven Greer. A lot of people, you know, think that he's just in it for the money. although um I've seen some of his stuff and I've I've looked into some of his witnesses and and some of them are pretty credible. So, you know, there's a lot of people that in in Euphology you can be on the fence about. All right. Sometimes they come out with something good and say, "Okay, he's legit." And sometimes they come out with crap and you go, you know, I don't know. All right. So, uh but Nap Nap and Lazard, I definitely think no stuff. All right. So, and Greer's promising a big announcement. I mean, he always promises big announcement at the same time. He He promised it for the 13th. Today's the 16th, so I'm still waiting for his big announcement. Well, he said before Trump before Trump goes into office, which sounds like a sort of Simpsons type prophecy, but do you have any you don't have any ideas? I mean, I've looked at a lot of his witnesses, too, and they are cred. They seem to be very credible. In fact, I actually offered to Greer to build. He was talking about he needed to build like a secure database to be able to share his files with cargo members. And I was in touch with his wife and I offered to build it because Matt and I have done tech companies for ages. That's what we know how to do. I'll keep you guys in mind for Muon if you know we need help like that. That that's good good background for us. Yeah. I don't know if you can tell, but it's a big interest of ours. We're quite interested. I mean, I think anyone that's curious should be wanting to know what's happening in the universe. So, yeah, keep us in mind. Yeah. Well, thanks for talking to us. This was I really appreciate it. I I love talking about UFOs and, you know, I I I like bringing information to the public, you know, no matter how strange, sinister, or helpful it might be. I I definitely think we're all on a mission. We're all on the same page. And hopefully in my lifetime, I'll see disclosure, but I'm not optimistic. I'm hoping AI might rush it where they can't stop it, but I'm not optimistic. But I'm sticking to the game cuz I love it. All right, guys. You feel Well, sorry, one last question. Do you feel UFOs are part of your life purpose or like what do you see as as purpose for humans in this existence? Me personally or Yeah. Yeah. You you personally and how'd you get there? I'll tell you this. Um I never felt like I was abducted or or whatever. When I was a kid, I had strange dreams um that I I could interpret today as possible grays, but I think they were just dreams. But people who are into this are really compelled to keep going. All right. It's almost like a an addiction or we can't stop or we're driven or some force is saying you've got to help expose what it is. And that's the way I feel sometimes. I feel like I've got to do this. I'm retired. I have all the time in the world to do it. But I've been I've been driven to do this since I'm a little kid. And I don't know why exactly. But when I talk to, you know, hundreds and hundreds of people over the years, it's like they'll still express the same sentiments that I do. It's like we're driven. Yeah. It's authentic. It feels authentic. So, that's great. All right. Glad Glad you're doing it. Thanks for doing all that. Yeah. Thank you. Thank you, too. All right. So, it's really nice meeting you, Bob. It was a pleasure talking to you guys. Hope to see you again. People go to muon. We'll put the website to muon. I mean, you know, muon muon.com and if somebody sees sees something, you just click on the button in the upper right hand corner, report a UFO or report an abduction uh or experience and it goes into our database. Somebody will contact that witness and help them. We even have an experience or resource team. So people who believe they've been abducted and they had a bad experience, we actually have people who can counsel them. Okay. And put them in touch with psychiatrists and stuff like that if needed. Oh, that's great. And you have a track for people who want to become local researchers and investigators as well. It's on the same website, mufon.com, and you click join, and then it'll say, do you want to be a field investigator? Do you want to be a member? Okay. I can tell you that being a field investigator for Muon has been one of the most exciting things I've ever done in my entire life. So, I love Yeah, I can't imagine. Sounds awesome. You get an assignment and you're like, you get in your car and you're like, hey, go check out what's going on over here and you're walking up on what's going to happen. What a what an awesome and then you break out in a rash cuz walked into an electromagnetic residual field and heavy metal dirt. Oh, man. Oh, stories. That's great. Um, That's a great Yeah. Well, much really appreciate it. See you later. All right. See you everybody. See you, man.